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Post by Josh on Jun 5, 2012 20:16:27 GMT -8
Luke 4:40 At sunset, the people brought to Jesus all who had various kinds of sickness, and laying his hands on each one, he healed them.
Acts 8:18
When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money
1 Timothy 5:22
Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.
2 Timothy 1:6
For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
Hebrews 6:1-3
6 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.
A few questions- I'm interested to hear different perspectives and experiences on this:
1) what is the historic, biblical function or purpose of the act of "laying on of hands"?
2) what role, if any, should the practice have in the modern church?
3) what has been your experience with the practice? (or lack of experience)
4) how can the practice be beneficial? how might it be detrimental?
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Post by robin on Jun 5, 2012 22:46:45 GMT -8
Just last night I was thinking about my baptism in the Holy Spirit. Chris and Don did the laying on of hands. I was wanting to ask why we don't do this at Aletheia.
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Post by Josh on Jun 6, 2012 8:20:53 GMT -8
Just last night I was thinking about my baptism in the Holy Spirit. Chris and Don did the laying on of hands. I was wanting to ask why we don't do this at Aletheia. Well, perhaps that depends on what you mean by "laying on of hands". Sounds like you mean specifically for the "receiving of the baptism of the holy spirit"? We, of course, do lay hands on the sick or those who are in a particular need, and we also lay hands on people at water baptism. I suppose this stems from my belief that the laying on of hands is appropriate whenever a special conference of the power of the Holy Spirit is being sought (for healing, commissioning, etc..) As to what the laying on of hands itself actually does, I'm not sure. I'm disinclined to attribute too much intrinsic power to it, but I do like it because I think it's a way to incorporate our bodies and our physical inter-connectedness into our spiritual experience. Tell us more about your experience. |
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Post by stevekimes on Jun 6, 2012 9:16:50 GMT -8
Martin Buber said that the laying on of hands passes authority from one person to another, just as Moses did to Joshua when. Certainly it is symbolic of the spirit of one being transferred to another.
Another symbol along these lines is the anointing of oil, which is also a New Testament practice. I often practice the laying on of hands in healing, and occasionally practice anointing of oil. But I don't feel that either of these symbolic actions are necessary. In fact, Jesus might say that having the faith of not needing the physical presence of a particular person is an act of faith (Matt 8:5-10)
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Post by Josh on Jun 9, 2012 15:27:46 GMT -8
As to the first part of your answer, steve, I have an idea for a new thread: What is Spiritual Authority? I also have prayed for healing with anointing; not that I think it is some special magic, but rather it seems to bring focus, sobriety, and physicality to the occasion. |
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Post by christopher on Jun 10, 2012 21:18:45 GMT -8
I think it had many functions, though mostly symbolic.
The patriarchs used it for passing their blessing on to their heirs before they died.
Jesus laid hands on children to invoke a blessing (Mark 10:16)
In Acts, the Holy Spirit seemed to be passed on using the laying on of hands.
Elders were commissioned by the laying on of hands (1Tim 5:22)
And apparently "laying on of hands" was considered as foundational as baptism to the early church (Heb 6:2)
I think we do it today as a way to have continuity with the early church. Though I still feel in some way it has some kind of spiritual significance that is more mystical that we know. But I couldn't say what....just a feeling.
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Post by Kirby on Jun 11, 2012 12:01:29 GMT -8
christopher said:
That's how I see it too. We touch one another in varying degrees of intimacy: A handshake vs. a hug for instance. (and kissing your wife is way different than kissing your sister...). I've always seen the "laying on of hands" not as part of some magic formula to increase the efficacy of prayer but as an example of love. The prayed for individual would feel that physical sense of support from his brothers and sisters. It is affirming and reminiscent that the family surrounding you is supportive.
Consider when you "lay your hands" on people when it is not for prayer reasons. It is to convey support, love, assistance, or sympathy. It only follows that this physical touch could act as some kind of spiritual conduit.
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Post by christopher on Jun 11, 2012 20:31:14 GMT -8
I think you're right Kirby. It certainly does convey those things to the recipient.
Still, I can't help thinking it's even more significant than that even. Whenever I lay hands on someone, something happens to me as well. It's kind of a "knitting of the souls" for lack of a better explanation. And I just get the sense that something supernatural is happening. But alas, like I said, I can't really explain it.
Then again, some things, the really beautiful things, cannot be expressed by mere words.
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Post by Josh on Jun 15, 2012 7:07:44 GMT -8
I hear what you're saying, Chris.
Reminds me of that Newsboys song "Spirit Thing":
"Some things in heaven cannot be explained"
I still would like to hear from Robin on this, since he had a question and I"m curious what he means by "the laying on of hands"
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Post by robin on Jun 15, 2012 15:11:13 GMT -8
Mostly I believe laying on of hands and what it actually accomplishes is a spiritual mystery. We are call to lay hands on upon sending people out on missions or in need. But we are also call to Baptise in the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands, and I was wondering why we don't do this after water baptism at Aletheia.
My own experiences have varied. At times I have felt moved by the Spirit, and other times I have felt nothing. After being baptized in the Holy Spirit I had no imidiat reaction, but looking back years later I can see how much I have Spiritualy change since that time. In hind sight the Spirit had moved in me.
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Post by Josh on Jun 17, 2012 17:37:38 GMT -8
Robin,
Explain to me a bit more about what you think would/ should be said if one is expecting to receive said "baptism of the holy spirit".
I have never treated it as a finite second (or third) step in the life of the believer, but I have often seen God fill a believer in a new, special way. That's what I've always referred to as being "baptised in the Holy Spirit". But I guess whenever I'm praying for someone and ask that the Holy Spirit fill them with power, I could be considered to be asking for a fresh baptism of the Holy Spirit. But that might be different from what you're suggesting. If so, how is it different exactly?
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Post by robin on Jun 18, 2012 14:49:15 GMT -8
There is no formula that I'm aware of. It seems much like water baptism in the sence that those who are close to you spiritualy are involved if possible. But a prayer for the filling of the life of the Christian with the Holy Spirit, by someone who has been filled with the spirit is the normal process so far as I can remember. Can you add any details Chris?
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Post by christopher on Jun 18, 2012 21:11:59 GMT -8
I don't believe they necessarily need to be separate events, but we do have a few examples in Acts where they were (chapter 8, and 19), so typically charismatics make it two events, and usually accompanied by laying on of hands. However, I don't believe it's about formula, I believe it's about intent and the heart.
Personally, I favor the two events, especially in our culture where it isn't typical to baptize at conversion (most unfortunately). I think a person being water baptized tends to be focused on the event of being "born" into the kingdom and not necessarily receiving power from the Spirit for living it out and ministering to others. It was helpful to me to ask for it on a different occasion because, at that time, it was what I was hungry for. Jesus did seem to indicate that the Holy Spirit should be asked for after all (Luke 11:13).
Josh, I believe a lot of it also has to do with the intent of the person performing the baptism, like you did with Jake. In that case, I feel like it was all one event because there was a laying on of hands and a specific prayer for receiving a filling of the Holy Spirit. Either way is good, but I believe its appropriate that a filling of the Holy Spirit should be asked for.
Just my opinion.
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shirley
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Post by shirley on Jun 19, 2012 7:34:55 GMT -8
Chris, or Robin, do you believe that this asking for the filling of the Holy Spirit is something we need to ask another person for? Or is it something we can simply ask God for? Does another "spirit-filled" person need to lay there hands on you according your belief or experience?
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Post by robin on Jun 19, 2012 16:14:39 GMT -8
It's done through the laying on of hands by someone who is Spirit filled. Trust me it would have been mch easier for me to just pray for the Spirit because I have troubles asking for help with anything. So even to ask Chris to do this for me was a little embarrassing, but humbling myself was part of the experience.
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Post by christopher on Jun 19, 2012 19:22:37 GMT -8
It's a good question Shirley.
Although we're not told explicitly, I personally believe there is a type/anti type relationship between the perpetual fire for the alter prescribed in Leviticus and the fire of the Holy Spirit described on the day of Pentecost. The priests of the old covenant were told to keep the fire burning and not let it go out. It seems kind of strange to us because it would seem like any ole fire could burn sacrifices pretty much the same any other. However, Nadab and Abihu soon found out that wasn't so.
In the same way, I believe the priests of the new covenant (all believers) are supposed to keep the fire burning perpetually as well. It started with tongues of fire from the Lord on the day of Pentecost, and judging by the disciples actions, it apparently was intended to be passed on by the laying on of hands (like one candle lighting another with the same fire).
Can God fill someone with the Holy Spirit without the laying on of hands? Sure, He can do whatever He wants. But it seems to me like He chose hands as the norm.
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shirley
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Post by shirley on Jun 20, 2012 19:54:42 GMT -8
It's done through the laying on of hands by someone who is Spirit filled. Trust me it would have been mch easier for me to just pray for the Spirit because I have troubles asking for help with anything. So even to ask Chris to do this for me was a little embarrassing, but humbling myself was part of the experience. Humility is an important virtue to be sure, one I need to work on too, and I don't wish to challenge anybody's personal experience, but I'm having a hard time accepting that the Holy Spirit comes to us by any means other than directly from God himself. Although we're not told explicitly, I personally believe there is a type/anti type relationship between the perpetual fire for the alter prescribed in Leviticus and the fire of the Holy Spirit described on the day of Pentecost. The priests of the old covenant were told to keep the fire burning and not let it go out. It seems kind of strange to us because it would seem like any ole fire could burn sacrifices pretty much the same any other. However, Nadab and Abihu soon found out that wasn't so. In the same way, I believe the priests of the new covenant (all believers) are supposed to keep the fire burning perpetually as well. It started with tongues of fire from the Lord on the day of Pentecost, and judging by the disciples actions, it apparently was intended to be passed on by the laying on of hands (like one candle lighting another with the same fire). Can God fill someone with the Holy Spirit without the laying on of hands? Sure, He can do whatever He wants. But it seems to me like He chose hands as the norm. This is an interesting idea Chris. Part of me likes the idea of passing on the flame, but even on the day of Pentacost the Spirit came upon them "like a mighty rushing wind" and they encouraged people to repent and be baptized, that this would in itself fill them with the Holy Spirit(v. 38). I didn't read anything in Acts 2 about laying on of hands to imbue the Holy Spirit. Did I miss it? |
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