Christian Perspectives on Health Insurance

[Josh]

So, Steve Gregg shared with us yesterday a bit of why he doesn't choose to pay for Health Insurance.

What are the strong points of this perspective? What are some counterpoints? What questions do you have on the subject? What concerns? What do you think?

[sarah]

HUH???

[meghan]

haha. Sarah is totally lost.

It's interesting. It's also interesting to note that it's not that he's choosing to just lay down and die, he's saying that if the need is meant to be filled, then God will cover it. It's inspiring (especially coming from a, ahem, older person). I don't have health insurance. i'm worried most of the time.

I know people don't like to get into specific discussions on situations when it comes to this stuff, but I have a friend with Type I diabetes and when his insurance ran out, and he couldn't find a job, it was HUGE. His parents helped him out to help cover the cost of insulin, but he couldn't do that forever.

[Margot]

So what was the outcome with your friend?

[meghan]

well, he eventually got a job, months later. I actually don't know if it has health insurance or not. I guess you could say he's being provided for, he hasn't died yet.

I broke my foot 18 months ago, without health insurance. It was not a fun time in my life. I feel like I'm still feeling the repercussions of that, financially. When you live hand to mouth, paying for that out of pocket, taking a week off of work, etc, does not help. I guess, again, you could say I'm being taken care of. I get by. I have wonderful parents. Unfortunately, contrary to popular belief, it's no fun being on the receiving side constantly.

[robin]

This is my view. I did appreciate that Steve does not advocate for universal health care. He understands that his decision to be un-insured is his decision, and he does not believe that it is societies job to fulfill his health care need. This is between he and God.

Each on of us is charged with the responsibility of meeting the financial needs of ourselves, and our families. When we fail in our responsibilities, it is not society's job to pick up the pieces, though this is usually what happens. Those that choose not to be insure, should make every effort to cover the expenses of their health care, and see to it that others are not made to pay for our irresponsible behavior.

Then of course there are those cases where someone has made every effort to be responsible, and through circumstance beyond their control, are unable to be insured, or pay for medical coverage. These are great opportunities for the church to fulfill it's mission, and look after to poor. I want to be very clear. This is the job of the church, not the government. Too often Christians are willing to allow the government to step in and replace the church, taking the glory away from God and handing it over to man. As government has grown bigger and taken over the role of meeting the needs of the poor, widows, and orphans, the Churches impact on society is been deeply diminished.

Back to the topic at hand. I see paying insurance premium much like I see paying rent or a mortgage. I don't sit around every day saying "if God wants a roof over my families head he will provide it". No! God gave me the responsibility, and the ability to give my family a home, and meet their daily needs. Health care falls into this category as well. If I did not pay for health care, I can say without a doubt that we would be bankrupt, and my financial obligations would have gone un-met. Those who cared for me, and gave me credit would be left holding the bill, due to the fact the I could never afford to pay my medical bills. My medical expenses in the last 3 years have ran over 150,000 dollars. I cannot afford to pay that bill on my own, but I can afford the insurance premium. The portion I pay to insure my family runs over 600 dollars / month. I consider this to be a bargain. You can see why medical insurance sits near the top of my list when it come to priorities.

Now it seems like I'm just rambling on, so I will wrap it up. By purchasing insurance, it does not show a lack of faith. We need to use the assets that God has given us to meet our responsibilities. As a Christian ,and a father, I cannot imagine that God would want me to put my family at risk by not buying health insurance, when I can afford it.

Robin

[meghan]

I can see your point. There is something to be said for asking God to provide, and looking right past the solution. Maybe God's provision is if you CAN afford insurance, do it.

Like that old story about a man asking God to help him in a flood, and after turning away 3 lifeboats, he dies and asks God why he didn't send help, and God reminds him that he did.

[robin]

May 5, 2009 8:15:11 GMT -8 meghan said:

I can see your point. There is something to be said for asking God to provide, and looking right past the solution. Maybe God's provision is if you CAN afford insurance, do it.

Like that old story about a man asking God to help him in a flood, and after turning away 3 lifeboats, he dies and asks God why he didn't send help, and God reminds him that he did.

Exactly! I thought about sighting that story, but I had already rambled on long enough. Thank you

[Josh]

So I have a lot of agreement with you, Robin.

I just want to temper it with a few observations and perhaps to fill in the story for those of you who don't know Steve.

Now, I might need some correcting myself, here, because I don't know Steve very well, but I think his personal stance on the subject makes a whole lot more sense when one understands that his radio ministry, teaching, and speaking are his job, and he does not have an employer. Furthermore, he's been inspired by the life of George Mueller, who, and I hope this is sufficiently accurate, was of the persuasion that in his ministry he would rely on God to provide miraculously, even to the point of refusing to directly ask for support. Is that correct, Chris/ Robin?

Also, he doesn't have any dependents, right?

So with those mitigating factors, his decision makes a lot more sense to me, and also enables him to put himself in a risky place for the sake of the gospel and benefit from the requisite trust he develops because of that, something that a lot of us miss in our efforts at establishing security.

My only big question for Steve, really, would be what if he did find himself with a long-term chronic and expensive to treat condition?

More in a bit...

[robin]

Also, he doesn't have any dependents, right?

I believe that Steve has raised 5, or 6 children, with only one remaining at home. His youngest is almost grown. I believe he a senior in high school. I don't know if his children were insured or not.

[Josh]

yeah, i meant current dependants. I wonder what he did before?

so, picked up where I left off:

My only big question for Steve, really, would be what if he did find himself with a long-term chronic and expensive to treat condition?

He kinda mentioned the possibility, but you brought up an interesting aspect, robin, in that if the debt was tremendously huge, at what point would it be unfair to require of your friends? I mean, I guess, he can say he wouldn't ask his friends anything, but certainly his friends would feel obligated to help. Would that hurt the friendship knowing that he could have purchased insurance and didn't and now the burden is that much greater?

OK, feels a bit weird to be talking at length about someone else like this, though I have the suspicion that Steve, by the very fact that he put it out there so publicly, probably forsees the resulting conversations it's going to generate.

To me, it's a tough one because it pits the love of friends and community against certain ideas of responsibility. Does that makes sense?

[robin]

This is why it is important to have at least a catastrophic health plan. If money is an issue, then one could buy a plan with a 10,000 dollar deductible. The premium for such a plan would be very low. In this case the need for money that would come from family or friends would be limited, and if someone were to rack of major medical expenses their insurance would cover losses over the deductible amount. This is preferable because not only do you limit the need for charity, but the care providers will be justly compensated for there work, while limiting the monthly expenses for insurance premium.

By the way, I just want to make it clear that I'm not casting any judgment on Steve. I think Steve is has thought through his decision, and is prepared to live with the consequences. At some point in the future Steve will be insured through Medicare automatically. It is very likely that at some point in Steve's life he will need medical treatment. I pray that it is no time in the near future.

Robin

[meghan]

can you buy catastrophic plans that don't have to be renewed every 6 months? In those cases, it's very difficult to get covered if something like cancer happens, because when one plan expires after 6 months, and you re-up your plan, then the disease or cancer is counted as a "pre-existing" condition and won't be covered the next time you sign up for the 6 month plan.

[robin]

There are individual plans that are guaranteed renewable. However those plans come with extensive underwriting. If you have Cancer, and other medical problems that could be on going, or pose a future risk, it is likely that the insurance carriers will deny coverage. In that case you would be referred to OMIP (Oregon Medical Insurance Pool). This is a high risk insurance policy offered through the state. It is guaranteed issue, but the rates are higher because of the added risk. If someone is healthy, I recommend that they purchase a Individual medical plan. Once you have an individual policy the insurance co. cannot terminate you coverage because of health risk, nor can the increase your rates due to utilization. In this case if you were to get cancer after enrolling in the plan, they could not come back later and drop your coverage.

It sounds like you have been looking at or dealing with Short Term Medical Coverage. The rates are lower on those plan, but they come with more restrictions, like the one that you described.

Robin

[meghan]

Well, here's a real life situation for you all!

I have a fake corner on my front tooth. I won't go into details. However, it is my worst fear that it will pop off at any given moment when I don't have money to get it fixed (no dental insurance). Last night the corner didn't come off, but a part up in the middle - so now I'm missing some enamel or something. Nothing hurts, I'm not in severe pain. It just bothers me that part of my inner tooth is exposed, and there's a rough edge where the fake corner stops and this other part has broken off.

SOOOOO now i get to figure out what to do. I have good parents. My case is not severe enough for them to accept me at the county health clinic (already called). My parents may know someone in California that might be able to help me in June. We shall see.

[robin]

You may want to call the dental School at OHSU. They may be able to help you, and save you some money.

[meghan]

Yeah. I looked into that. School's not in session or something, and I wouldn't be able to see anybody until June 30th, and by then I'm out of town for the summer. They also have a faculty dental practice there, but I'd have to wait until June 2nd. The Mt. Hood school only does routine things. The mid-county health clinic won't accept me because my situation is not severe enough.

Luckily, my mom and dad have met someone through their ministry who lives in California and is a dentist. He said he would definitely look at it for me when I head to Mexico in the middle of June. Until then I get to pray and trust God that nothing more will happen to it.