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Post by christopher on Mar 4, 2010 19:00:42 GMT -8
The alternate universe thing is really kind of tripping me out....did we miss some sort of butterfly effect thing in a previous episode or something?  Faraday has to behind this somehow. |
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Post by Margot on Mar 4, 2010 20:37:05 GMT -8
I keep waiting for Miles to get killed, but he yet remains. Hasn't he long outlived his relevance on the show? Thank you for bringing this up! I am so tired of that guy!!!!! |
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Post by Josh on Mar 4, 2010 20:40:11 GMT -8
Well, right up until the end of last season he was pretty integral to the storyline.
Some Like it Hoth was one of my very favorite episodes (but more so because of Hurley, of course)
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Post by rbbailey on Mar 5, 2010 13:31:00 GMT -8
The alternate universe thing is really kind of tripping me out....did we miss some sort of butterfly effect thing in a previous episode or something? I think it is the writers' showing that fate will work its way out in one way or another. All of the individuals are meeting each other in different ways than they did on the island, but the end result of their meetings will all be the same. The island is basically a worm-hole, a place where the multiple universes speculated upon in string theory sort of meet. That is why we have a sunken island, and a sunken Oceanic flight, and an alternative universe going on in this season. They are all the final endings of the universe that didn't work out the way fate had designed. These two, I believe, will work out with the same fate for each of the characters, but in different ways. |
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Post by michelle on Mar 7, 2010 18:33:21 GMT -8
Oh Mo, you are so funny. The women always get blamed.  What would a Twin Peaks ending look like in LOST? (never seen Twin Peaks) A Twin Peaks ending would like like all of the people in the running to take over the island becoming evil incarnate. It was a weird, but totally addictive show. |
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Post by michelle on Mar 9, 2010 22:02:01 GMT -8
Ah, forgiveness and transformation (let's hope!!). What a great episode!!!! I heart Ben!!
So, Ilana said there are 6 people still in the running to take over Jacob's position. Jack, Hurly, Sawyer, one of the Kwons and _____ and _____. Perhaps the audience gets so focused on the 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 that we missed seeing a couple of other names? Or maybe Locke and Sayid aren't really out of the running? Or perhaps Kate, who was on "Jacob's list" when they were kidnapped is actually part of the running?
I was wondering when Widmore was going to make an appearance.
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Post by rbbailey on Mar 9, 2010 22:13:59 GMT -8
What shall we call this episode? Trials of Faith? Some of this stuff sounds so much like me... without the killing and the time travel. But I very much identify with Richard and Ben and Jack in this episode. And it's good to know the writers understand forgiveness as much as they understand brokenness.
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Post by michelle on Mar 10, 2010 9:49:57 GMT -8
I totally agree. I was so moved by the amount of faith in this episode. Giant leaps of faith in trusting that which is unseen and that which does not make much sense (Jack), being reminded to keep faith when you feel all is lost or doesn't make sense (Richard) and being shown that even those who have done unthinkable things in the past can be be forgiven even (Ben). And what about Ilana forgiving the man that killed someone that was like a father to her. What an amazing act of reaching out and showing true forgiveness.
I have to say that this was one of my favorite episodes we've had thus far. It was a great reminder that Jesus can redeem anybody and change the heart of anybody. The dialogues and monologues in this episode rang true to so many people's walk of faith. I especially liked Richard's.
Oh, and I love what Miles said to Ben about Jacob's last thought. That up until the moment he died, Jacob had hoped that he was wrong about Ben. It makes me think of how Jesus must have felt about Judas. That hope that even though Jesus knew how everything was going to play out, that Judas would have a change of heart at the last minute. It was heartbreaking for me.
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Post by Kirby on Mar 10, 2010 9:52:25 GMT -8
Remember that Locke was on the list too, but Smokey Locke crossed his name off.
It is possible that the real Locke will ressurect (as Jacob) or Sayid will be redeemed (like Ben). When oh when will we see the Kwons reunite? That will make me need my hankie.
He is still relevant! He can communicate with dead people. This is a much needed skill on the island full of mystery!
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Post by rbbailey on Mar 10, 2010 10:23:28 GMT -8
And what about Ilana forgiving the man that killed someone that was like a father to her. What an amazing act of reaching out and showing true forgiveness. When that moment happened, I was literally thinking this moment will make or break the show for me in a lot of ways. I knew he was going to say he's going with Locke because he had no choice, and I was just hoping she would say the right thing. I really got a kick out of the words that came into my head at that moment: TRUTH & GRACE I think it says a lot about the writers, and I may actually go and buy the entire Lost set on DVD now, because of the way it is wrapping up. |
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Post by Josh on Mar 10, 2010 17:28:39 GMT -8
And what about Ilana forgiving the man that killed someone that was like a father to her. What an amazing act of reaching out and showing true forgiveness. When that moment happened, I was literally thinking this moment will make or break the show for me in a lot of ways. I knew he was going to say he's going with Locke because he had no choice, and I was just hoping she would say the right thing. I really got a kick out of the words that came into my head at that moment: TRUTH & GRACE I think it says a lot about the writers, and I may actually go and buy the entire Lost set on DVD now, because of the way it is wrapping up. I had the same thoughts about that scene, Ben! |
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Post by michelle on Mar 10, 2010 18:36:54 GMT -8
So my boss came up with a great thought today. We were having our weekly Lost debrief lunch and she stumbled upon something. One of the big questions that floats around is "what is the significance of the island". We think there may be some kind of power it has. But what if it's not the island that has any power. What if it something ON the island that has the power. Note the following: - The smoke monster wants to get off the island (he wants to "go home").
- There are people that can keep the smoke monster from going into certain places (the Temple guy, Jacob). It's like the smoke monster has certain limitations that he has to follow.
- We know that a battle is imminent.
What if the point of the island is there has to be someone there to contain the smoke monster because if the smoke monster got off the island he would run rampant. Jacob kept smokie from getting off the island and the candidate will have to do the same thing. Rev 20:1-3 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.Rev 20:7-8 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle.We think that the smoke monster wants to get off the island to go destroy more. |
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Post by rbbailey on Mar 10, 2010 20:11:40 GMT -8
I've always thought of the island in two ways.
1. A sort of worm-hole between dimensions and other worlds
2. A sort of Abyss (as you pointed out)
I think it may be a bit of both.
By the way, did you guys know that there used to be an Oceanic Airlines web site? And there used to be several different Darma web sites?
The Oceanic site was set up just like a normal airlines site where you could actually go through the process of getting tickets and selecting seats. If you selected the correct seat numbers (guess which numbers!) it would open up a secondary site that went to this strange puzzle thing that gave away secrets, etc...
The Darma sites looked like mirror sites to the different Darma programs. You could apply for a job, apply to go on assignments, and you could research the projects they were working on. One of the sites lead you to a "live" web cam where you could see a monkey in a cage on the island, and he would do things...
It was very cool stuff.
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Post by michelle on Mar 10, 2010 22:12:04 GMT -8
By the way, did you guys know that there used to be an Oceanic Airlines web site? And there used to be several different Darma web sites? Yeah, they went pretty crazy the first season with stuff. |
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Post by moritz on Mar 12, 2010 7:26:28 GMT -8
Ah, forgiveness and transformation (let's hope!!). What a great episode!!!! I heart Ben!! So, Ilana said there are 6 people still in the running to take over Jacob's position. Jack, Hurly, Sawyer, one of the Kwons and _____ and _____. Perhaps the audience gets so focused on the 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 that we missed seeing a couple of other names? Or maybe Locke and Sayid aren't really out of the running? Or perhaps Kate, who was on "Jacob's list" when they were kidnapped is actually part of the running? Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Sawyer, Jin Kwon, Sun Kwon, Baby Kwon actually makes 7 already. Why would Sayid be out of the running? The end is not there yet. Ilana said that both Jin and Sun are candidates because we don't know which Kwon Jacob referred to. When Smokie said he didn't know whether it was Jin or Sun he made us all forget that there is yet another Kwon that could matter. And John Locke? Smokie crossed him off the list but it isn't Smokie's list so he is noone to cross anybody off the list. Jacob touched John once John's father had thrown him out of the window. If Jacob's touch is giving immortality, we know that John will return. That makes 8 candidates. But if Jacob's touch merely meant that you can't commit suicide, John won't come back that way. Jacob also touched little Kate on the nose for whatever that means. The sum of the candidates numbers is 108, a number that is being used as frequently throughout the series as the other numbers (press the button all 108 minutes, put the mirror on 108 degrees, etc.). If she really was on the list at one point, 108 might be her number? Anyway, mortal, immortal, I'm too confused now. If Richard was immortal, why would he think he could get killed by others? Or is this killing rule only binding for some of them??? BTW, there's heaps of Greek mythology in Lost, that's why I vaguely remembered a pretty wicked monster that was trapped inside the earth by the titan Kronos... unfortunately I can't remember the name so I couldn't google the story. Everytime I enter "Greek mythology" "Kronos" and "monster", the stories of Hydra and other creatures appears that don't have anything to do with the one I'm searching. Anyway. Just like Smokie has been shown like the three-headed Cerberos and the guy who gave Hurley the numbers said that he, Hurley So when Ben and his dad remember the times on the island, we learn that they could have stayed and wondered what would have become of Ben if the hadn't left. Does that mean the nuke didn't go off after all? Everything is too confusing now. Further questions: Who's on board with Widmore? Aaron? Walt? Mrs. Hawkings? Desmond? Apparently not only Jacob needs a successor, but also Smokie. Smokie found a loophole to leave the island but the island will persist with new black and white rocks so to speak. So what's this? How many episodes are still to come? |
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Post by Margot on Mar 12, 2010 9:00:53 GMT -8
So many great comments here, so little time! I can't believe I missed this thread earlier this week...I must be REALLY overhwelmed with my own life, not to do my weekly support group check in.
(Hi. I'm Margot and I'm a Lostaholic...)
In no particular order and with no time to paste the individual quotes:
---I would say this episode was absolutely pivotal in the course of the show. Sure, a lot more dramatic things may happen in terms of revealing secrets, but I think this really sealed the deal on grace, faith, and forgiveness within the character webs.
---I don't care if Miles communicates with MY dead relatives, (not that I'd encourage anyone to try that,) I am so tired of that whiner I could just spit! (Of course the minute I announced that during the last episode, my husband, who has been sucked back into the show after several years, immediately said: "You know, I've always liked that guy...") G-r-r-r
--What's not to love about a title like "Some like it Hoth?" Star Wars, like rock and roll, may never die.
--Mo: Love the idea about the Little Kwon! Never thought of it--would be quite the twist. Being born on the island or off the island--is this something we should be looking at as a possible qualification of a successor?
--RB Bailey: The island is basically a worm-hole, a place where the multiple universes speculated upon in string theory sort of meet. That is why we have a sunken island, and a sunken Oceanic flight, and an alternative universe going on in this season. They are all the final endings of the universe that didn't work out the way fate had designed. These two, I believe, will work out with the same fate for each of the characters, but in different ways.
I am in total agreement.
--And, I want a bumper sticker that says: "Lost. So much like me without the killing and the time travel."
--Michelle: "Oh, and I love what Miles said to Ben about Jacob's last thought. That up until the moment he died, Jacob had hoped that he was wrong about Ben. It makes me think of how Jesus must have felt about Judas. That hope that even though Jesus knew how everything was going to play out, that Judas would have a change of heart at the last minute. It was heartbreaking for me"....Ditto and Amen for me.
--And, am I the only one that jumped out of their skin when Ben's LA-Teacher Dad turned out to be Ben's Island dad??? Am I right that is the first time the LA thread mentioned crossing over to the Island?? Wow.
--Someone mentioned before that Ben may yet be the successor. This episode certainly strengthened that theory in my opinion. I just kept thinking what an amazing actor this guy is to keep jumping back and forth between good and evil. He'll be the one to watch once the show finally wraps up.
--Like others, I'm not sure I believe we've seen the last of the real John Locke. Although now that he's 6 feet under, it might get kinda messy....
--Last but not least: Michelle: Twin Peaks was weird, fantastic and amazing. It's a great example of a show that started with incredible potential and deteriorated into a soupy, twisted, mess. The finale was a crime. Nevertheless, Twin Peaks was a genre-beaker. Without Twin Peaks there would never have been an X-files or any of the countless others of that ilk. Back in the day, Paul and I just barely made it from one episode to the other--we loved it that much.
If any of you are interested in checking it out, I would recommend you rent it, watch the first two seasons, and then stop watching and just imagine your own ending. It'll be better that way. Oh, and be sure to stock up on a lot of coffee and pie before viewing. If you watch it, you'll see what I mean. ;0
Till next week!
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Post by Josh on Mar 12, 2010 13:41:59 GMT -8
moritz wrote:
Immortal only need mean that one doesn't age or die naturally.
Perhaps you're thinking of the "Hundred-Handed Ones" and the Cyclops whom Zeus freed from prisions under the earth to help fight the titans?
It's a theme also in Tolkien (Balrog), and the Bible, and other mythologies.
;D
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