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Post by rbbailey on Feb 6, 2010 23:16:22 GMT -8
I'm not so sure the nuke actually went off. I mean, I guess it did... but the white flash, the waking up in some new spot --- that was exactly what kept happening before the nuke went off.
Also, what do we make of the island sunk? It sunk, but they are still on it in some... place... time... AND they are in LA.
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Post by Margot on Feb 8, 2010 0:33:22 GMT -8
I'm not so sure the nuke actually went off. I mean, I guess it did... but the white flash, the waking up in some new spot --- that was exactly what kept happening before the nuke went off. Also, what do we make of the island sunk? It sunk, but they are still on it in some... place... time... AND they are in LA. So we have THREE parallel realities? (Or whatever you want to call them.) I guess I'm not too convinced about the biblical or mythological theories. Of course, that could stem from the fact that I am now hopelessly confused... Have you guys considered having Lost Parties? My daughter and her roommates and friends do. It's kind of like a mini-Super Bowl every Tuesday night at her house ;D |
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Post by Josh on Feb 8, 2010 12:17:56 GMT -8
Surely you'd admit that they've used a heavy dose of biblical and mythological references throughout the entire series, right?
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Post by moritz on Feb 9, 2010 6:36:43 GMT -8
So you bastards guys get to see episode three today and I won't be able to catch up until some point later in the week.  That means I will ignore this thread in vfear of spoilers. So I better drop a couple of comments now! Michelle: No, I don't think the bomb worked the way they thought it would. I think the only thing the bomb did was set the space/time continuum back to how it was supposed to be. I think the plane crashed and that the plane not crashing is a dream or something. There were several things that I noticed about the plane ride that lead me to believe it was not the actual flight. 1) Shannon, Boone's sister, crashed on the island, but was not on this plane. 2) Desmond was on the plane even though he was already on the island when the plane crashed. 3) Hurley says on the plane that he has the best luck. He always thought he had the worst luck because of things like the meteor crashing into the chicken place. So pre-crash Hurley would not have thought he had great luck. 4) With the exception of Bernard, we didn't see the people from the back of the plane? Where was Mr. Eko, Libby, etc.? 5) Where were Michael and Walt? 6) This is probably my strongest reason for why I think the flight was not real. Did you notice the size of the coach seats? For an international flight? COME ON!!  If the bomb did keep the hatch from being needed, then it would have had to change a LOT of the past in order for all of these things to make sense. (….) Excellent observations and theories!  Especially the one with the first oceanic flight. The Atlantis theory is also interesting! Kirb: hahaha! ;D PS: I've been asking myself what the egyptian imagery was about as well. As far as I know, the statue Jacob lived under shows the egyptian Goddess Tawaret, who is the protector of pregnant women (!) And inside the temple is a relief of the egyptian God Anubis talking to "Smokie" (lol). Chris: Very interesting theory. However, it makes me wonder how he ever won the lottery to begin with since he would have never have gotten them from the guy in the looney bin. HA! Man, this time travel thing always twists my brain in knots. I don't know how anyone can reconcile it...I mean how does Faraday die before he's born  He’s born and then he dies. Where’s the problem?  RbBailey: I'm not so sure the nuke actually went off. I mean, I guess it did... but the white flash, the waking up in some new spot --- that was exactly what kept happening before the nuke went off. I think the nuke going off and Jacob’s death are in a way connected through time. Somehow. Jacob’s death brought them back in time and the nuke changed history. Uhm. That doesn’t make much sense, does it? Everything’s allowed in fiction!  Josh: Surely you'd admit that they've used a heavy dose of biblical and mythological references throughout the entire series, right? As some have pointed out already, the series is a mash of many different mythologies. The biblical references are there. But many of them could be interpreted differently as well. Everybody sees what he wants to see in the end. So @ all: Is Jacob using Sayids body the way "Smokie" (huhaha) is using Locke? What chains was Smokie referring too when he talked to Richard? Was Richard Jacob's slave?? What happened to the Black Rock? Remember, that ship Jacob and his antagonist were probably watching some time in the past at the horizon. Did you notice that Jacobs first name begins with J just like many savior figures in movies (" John Connor" - Terminator, " John Coffee" - The Green Mile e.g.). The same goes for Jack and Locke. The C in the last name is missing though. |
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Post by Josh on Feb 9, 2010 8:42:19 GMT -8
I see it as akin to a satanic-like insistence that service or submission equals slavery. How's that for alliteration? |
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Post by Kirby on Feb 9, 2010 10:51:14 GMT -8
On another forum, someone postulated that maybe Richard was a slave aboard the Black Rock.
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Post by moritz on Feb 9, 2010 14:05:48 GMT -8
Michelle:
was the flight with which Jack, Kate & co returned to the island an oceanic flight as well? I can't remember. Maybe the stewardess was distiguishing between crash one and crash two. Then again, since Jack and others were on both crashs it doesn't make much sense to merely say they were on the first oceanic flight. I'm confused.
On a different note: Did anybody realize, that the old cabin in which John Lock first heared what he believed was Jacob's voice, was surrounded by a circle of ashes?
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Post by Josh on Feb 9, 2010 19:03:55 GMT -8
No, it wasn't. It was Ajira (Hajira)? Which, by the way, sounds like the word for the Muslim pilgrimage (hajj) It refers to their original flight from Mecca I believe. (I just realized this)  Yes. My theory is that anytime anyone who died on the island has appeared again, it was actually the smoke monster (except the new appearance of Jacob). So, Christian has always been the smokie on the island, trying to deceive both Jack and Ben in the cabin. Also, that means that Alex (Ben's daughter) was really the smokie when she made Ben swear to do whatever Locke asked him to do. |
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Post by moritz on Feb 16, 2010 9:09:49 GMT -8
Yes. My theory is that anytime anyone who died on the island has appeared again, it was actually the smoke monster (except the new appearance of Jacob). So, Christian has always been the smokie on the island, trying to deceive both Jack and Ben in the cabin. Also, that means that Alex (Ben's daughter) was really the smokie when she made Ben swear to do whatever Locke asked him to do. I agree with that. But what about Walt? He appeared to Locke when Locke was shot by Ben and lying in that grave. I suppose it was Smokie as well. So he can impersonate the dead and the living? On to a problem: Who "claimed" Sayid? We know that Rousseau was referring to a mysterious disease or infection or something the like. That could be the same thing Sayid is suffering from. But if so, why did Jacob order Hurley to bring Sayid to the temple instead of letting him die right away? Or was that vision of Jacob actually Smokey as well? This can't be because Jacob tells Hurley to bring the guitar-case with the hidden message which only Jacob can know about unless the Jacob we have seen visiting Hurley in the "real world" was smokie as well, which seems impossible, cause smokie wants to go home which means he can't leave the island. But then again Claire, who is still alive, also appeared in the real world telling Kate that Aaron may under no circumstances return to the island. Boy, I'm confused. I still think it could actually be Jacob who claimed Sayid and Dogan simply doesn't recognize it. Uhm. Yeah. Well. On to another question: When Jacob died, his last words were "they are coming"? Something Smokie wasn't glad to hear. Who was he talking about? Jack & co. returning from the seventies? Or maybe even Aaron and Walt? What's their weird part in that puzzle? How could they possibly return? Only with help from Eloise Hawking or Charles Widmore. On to another question: Smokie was literally unable to kill Jacob by himself. Ben was literally unable to kill Widmore. Michael was unable to kill Mr. Friendly. Why is that? Ben trusted, that the soldier would be unable to kill Alex. What's that all about? He blamed Widmore for having changed the rules. What rules? Jacob doesn't defend himself against Ben. He says that Ben had a choice yet he (Jacob) doesn't seem to have a choice when it comes to resistance. Or he chooses not to resist. But he could have fled as well. What is this? Are we dealing with a prophesy here? Is that the reason why free will decisions like the one of Michael trying to shoot Mr. friendly wouldn't work? Is that why some people are unable to kill some other people? Is that why the bomb going of brings us a parallel reality but not the definite end of the island? Too many questions. PS: I'm not too happy about the return of Claire. I could so do without her.... |
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Post by Josh on Feb 16, 2010 16:31:19 GMT -8
All very good questions...
You brought up some things I had totally forgotten.
My thinking is that Claire is just the smoke monster and that she actually died when Whidmore's men took over the compound.
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Post by Margot on Feb 16, 2010 17:47:34 GMT -8
you guys are all s=o=o=o=o far ahead of me, it's not even funny...
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Post by rbbailey on Feb 16, 2010 22:03:40 GMT -8
Perelandra.
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Post by Kirby on Feb 16, 2010 22:08:02 GMT -8
Lots o' Lewis going on here.
I thought tonight's episode answered many questions.
Locke/Smokie is getting cocky, though.
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Post by michelle on Feb 16, 2010 23:23:52 GMT -8
I'm not so sure the nuke actually went off. I mean, I guess it did... but the white flash, the waking up in some new spot --- that was exactly what kept happening before the nuke went off. When the time traveling happened, didn't people end up exactly where they were on the island, just in a different time? How would you explain that Kate ended up in a tree? And didn't they hear a sharp, high pitched noise before the white light came. And it never caused temporary hearing loss before. But when everyone woke up they couldn't hear. That is consistent with an explosion. |
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Post by michelle on Feb 16, 2010 23:37:17 GMT -8
Lots o' Lewis going on here. Ok, I don't know much about CS Lewis or any of his books, but I do recall that there were 4 "heroes/heroines" that had to fight the witch in L, W & W, right? Jacob's list (when they were abducted) consisted of 4 people: Jack, Kate, Saywer & Hurley. Could it be that these are the only 4 people that can save the island and that they will have to fight together to protect it? If everyone that has died on the island is resurrected for evil, how long until we see Mr. Eko, Libby and Ana Lucia again? And those 2 random people that were buried in the sand in that one episode. I loved that we are seeing the numbers again and that they have more significance now. And I love that they are weaving islanders in with the non-plane crash universe. Ben as a teacher. Creepy!! I do find it slightly odd though that his name was still Ben Linus, but last week Ethan (Claire's doctor from the island) had a different name than he did on the island. I wonder if that has significance. Here's another question: why is smoke monster now "stuck" in John Locke's form? Wouldn't that mean that Claire and any other dead person we see is not a smoke monster incarnation? |
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Post by Josh on Feb 17, 2010 12:56:31 GMT -8
Did anyone see the Ilana/ Mary Magdalene connection? Rosemary pointed it out to me- that she was crying by Jacob's "tomb"/ wanted to know where Jacob's body was, and collected his ashes, etc.. Also, she seems to be the person with the most intimate connection with Jacob (he saved her from whatever tragedy was in her past).
I love how the central theme seems to revolve around Jacob's good will and purposes regardless of appearances to the contrary. I hope the whole thing ends up as a grand theodicy-- like the book of Job.
Smokie's reasoning is soooo 99% reasonable- just that pinch of a deadly lie embedded that changes everything.
On another note, why is Ben travelling around with Ilana now and not Smokie or on his own?
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Post by rbbailey on Feb 17, 2010 13:15:35 GMT -8
I have not read the Lewis books for a long time, but last night especially, when Locke* was towing different people around with him, trying to get to where it was he wanted to go, I just kept invisioning the conversation that occurred on the floating islands on the planet in Lewis' book.
And even just now, I realized that the Island IS floating!!
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