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Post by Alex on Sept 10, 2007 9:12:48 GMT -8
Here's one that's often been presented.
Throughout history, people have created and held various religious beliefs, rites, and superstitions. There are arguably far more variations of spirituality than identified cultures in the world, present and historical. Additionally there are currently several thriving predominant religions in the world today, in healthy competition with Christianity and often with simpler, more intuitive messages than the Christ story.
Why would Christianity not be just another one of the many religions, either created for people's need for comfort, or a misguided reflection from the true path of spirituality?
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Post by Josh on Sept 26, 2007 21:03:07 GMT -8
Here's a short answer related to some of the aspects you brought up (for more unpacking later).
Just because there are numerous religious truth claims and spiritual paths in existence, it doesn't follow that they all stand on equal footing in regard to either rational scrutiny or practical live-ability.
Many religions have no basis for rational inquiry into their truth claims, because many religions are founded almost exclusively on inward, subjective validation. That is, these religions don't attempt to give evidence for the truth of their claims other than subjective personal experience. The claims of these religions aren't really testable other than by inviting personal religious experiences. The problem with that being the only way to test a religion's truths claims is the fact that people from almost all religious perspectives claim to have validating religious experiences even though their experiences and the doctrines that follow from them are contradictory.
If all a religion has to offer is subjective experience, then there is no way to be confident in the truth of it's claims.
Other religions offer self-evident truths or historical evidence to back up their claims. From a seeker/ skeptics viewpoint, it makes sense to investigate these religions (or belief systems) first because they offer several potentially falsifiable arguments.
Christianity is the epitome of this kind of religion, so it's a great place to begin an investigation of world religions. It makes all sorts of potentially falsifiable claims: that Jesus worked miracles, that prophets predicted the future, that Jesus rose from the dead, etc.. It is ripe for rational investigation*. It stands out from most other religions for this reason, among others.
This doesn't cover the second part of your question, which leads to larger discussions. More to come....
Thoughts on this so far?
* not to diminish the subjective, inward promise of following Christ, which, ultimately, is the real heart of Christianity.
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aimee
Advanced Member
Posts: 136
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Post by aimee on Oct 29, 2007 17:11:32 GMT -8
I have done very little in the way of studying other religions, which is to the detriment of my argument. However, from what I have seen of other religions, the uniqueness of Christianity for me is held in its philosophy. Specifically the philosophy that it is not up to us to work our own salvation, enlightenment, etc. It is through the voluntary (1) death of Jesus that all mankind are reconciled to God so they can communicate with him openly and become his children. It is not because of race, sex, the number of times one prayes, what one eats/doesn't eat, what one sacrifices, etc. Christianity’s righteousness is not about how 'good' a person makes themselves.(2) Which seems to me the only way a religion trying to reconcile a person to a god or make them better could be. The whole point of perfecting/reconciling oneself is that we are imperfect.(3) Everything we do reflects that to some degree. Therefore, we can never perfect ourselves because our very act of perfecting/purifying is to some extent flawed. Because of this, the only way to become perfect is to have some perfect being make us so. Thus, we see God, sacrificing his pure and faultless Son so that sin no longer shall be held against man.(4) It's like Isaac and Abraham (5), only God goes all the way with it. But even after this sacrifice, God does not force us to be made perfect and be his. He amazes me! He moves heaven and earth so we can commune openly with him, but he always allows us the freedom to choose not to. It seems like the easier way would have been not to put the 'Tree of the knowledge of good and evil' in the garden. Or mind-control us all to be happy and do good. But perhaps he wanted us to not sin because we loved him, rather than because we had no opportunity. I suppose obedience from the heart can only happen if a person has the choice not to obey. In order for us to accept this perfection through Jesus, we must believe that he was God’s son, was a perfect being (6), and did indeed die to perfect us so we can be reconciled to God.(7) As a part of our realization, we have recognized that our old lives are not what we want (thus our search for perfection). As part of our new life of perfection, we give up our own choices, and follow God into a better life.(8) We are motivated to follow him and do as he asks because we love the purity we have in God, and because he is a supreme being who showed us love and kindness, and because we love him for what he has done for us.(9) So, in a way Christianity seems to me to be in the opposite order of other religions. God offers us perfection and Holiness immediately when we acknowledge Jesus’ sacrifice, he does not require prior good works. Even after we have given our lives and choices to him, he doesn’t ask us to follow him by doing some wrote, ritualistic formulas (as in some other religions), but through doing what he asks of us on a personal level (the more difficult for me). Which is why I think some people's lives make such a dramatic change and continue to grow and bloom throughout their lives when they become followers of Christ. And that’s all I’ve got for now. I realize not all Christians (including myself at times) behave as if we believe this way, but according to Christ and the Bible, this is a Christian's belief. In addition, this only deals with Christianity’s uniqueness from one philosophical point of view. And it doesn’t address the issue of: whether we make up religion to comfort ourselves. Bible References: * To quickly search these references try www.biblegateway.com ‘Passage Lookup’, or refrence The Bible.1. Jesus’ death was voluntary: Matthew 26:52-542. We are not perfected by how ‘Good’ good we are: Romans 9:15-16, 2Timothy 1:9, Ephesians 2:8-10, Galatians 3:6, Romans 4:1-8, 1Timothy 1:15-17, Galatians 3:11(Following the Old Testament ‘Law’/wrote rules does not perfect us), Galatians 3:19 (Purpose of the ‘law’/rules was to keep society under control), Romans 5:8 3. We are imperfect: Romans 3:234. Sin no longer held against man: 2Corinthians 5:18-19, John 3:17-18, Romans 8:1-45. Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac: Genesis 226. Jesus was God’s Holy Son: Luke 4:34 (called ‘Holy’ by demons), 2Corinthians 5:21 (had no sin), Hebrews 4:15 (tempted in every way, no sin), Matthew 26:63-64 (Jesus claims to be God’s son), Matthew 8:29(demons recognize God’s son), Luke 3:22(God calls Jesus his on), Matthew 3:17(God calls Jesus his son), Isaiah 53:9(committed no sin) 7. Jesus died to perfect us: Hebrews 10:1-10, Romans 6:22-238. No longer live for ourselves/ old way of life: 2Corinthians 5:15-16, John 3:19-21, Romans 8:5, 1Peter 1:13-219. Our purity came because of God’s love for us not our love for Him: 1John 4:9-11, John 3:16, John 4:16 10. Our gift of purity is evident by what we choose to do: 3John 1:11, James 2:14-25, 1Peter 4:1-5 These are only a few of many verses on this subject
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Post by Josh on Nov 1, 2007 21:12:02 GMT -8
Aimee,
You've done a fine job at pointing out one of the most important distinctives of our faith. This truth was made very plain to me several years ago when I read an article in Newsweek in which leaders from various religions were interviewed on their perspectives on the death of Christ.
Many of those interviewees found the idea of God suffering to the point of death unacceptable (especially Hindus and Buddhists who see suffering as the result of desire and the eradication of desire as true enlightenment).
Some of them found his suffering noble, but nonetheless failed to see the shocking truth you're driving at. Christians believe in God's plan to reconcile mankind- we believe in God's decisive action on our behalf. We don't trust or hope in our own efforts to somehow attain reconciliation with God or ultimate reality. Jesus isn't just an example of perfection for us to imitate on our own steam, He Himself is our means to perfection.
You point out a brilliant logical argument I'd never see it just this light on this issue. It makes great sense- how could an imperfect being ever attain perfection on it's own if even it's efforts are imperfect? Only a perfect being can make the imperfect perfect-- therefore our efforts, on their own, are hopeless.
I appreciate the verse footnotes, too! Very cool.
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