John 4

[Josh]

Post your comments/ questions/ discussion starters about John chapter 4 as replies here.

[Josh]

John 4:2b

"Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples"

First off, before we get into all this Samaratan woman at the well stuff, this verse jumped out to me. Besides showing Jesus' ascendancy over John, I think this verse backs up a major idea of the New Testament- namely that the Church are God's hands and feet in the world. Though God is not above direct action, it seems He prefers to work through us.

Actually, I think in here is a kernel of one of the central truths of the reason for the existence of the universe, this is that crucial.

Thoughts on this or other parts of John 4?

[b]

John 4:2 ( and others that support it ) can be used to support very different things.

I totally agree that it supports the Church as God's hands and feet in the world. Christ's disciples baptize those who repent and accept salvation, then those people go out to baptize others. We have the opportunity to let God use us, work through us.

The other interpretation is that since Jesus did not baptize anyone, neither should we. This view, or a variation on it, is held by Quaker churches and other groups ( such as the Salvation Army ) that do not practice baptism.

They would probably defend the position by saying that Jesus was baptized by John for ritual purposes or to fulfill something. After all, he did not have any sins to repent of and had already accepted God the father and rejected evil. So they might even say that with his baptism, the practice became obsolete and no on else needs it.

As for myself though, just watch the August 2006 video from Eagle Creek.

[Josh]

So, I've always wondered but never bothered to ask specifically, how do groups such as these make sense of the book of Acts and other New Testament documents that presuppose (even command) baptism. Did you ever pick that up?

[Josh]

So, here are some details about the Samaritans which are really helpful in getting more out of this passage:

the name given to the new and mixed inhabitants whom Esarhaddon (B.C. 677), the king of Assyria, brought from Babylon and other places and settled in the cities of Samaria, instead of the original inhabitants whom Sargon (B.C. 721) had removed into captivity (2 Kings 17:24; comp. Ezra 4:2, 9, 10). These strangers (comp. Luke 17:18) amalgamated with the Jews still remaining in the land, and gradually abandoned their old idolatry and adopted partly the Jewish religion.

After the return from the Captivity, the Jews in Jerusalem refused to allow them to take part with them in rebuilding the temple, and hence sprang up an open enmity between them. They erected a rival temple on Mount Gerizim, which was, however, destroyed by a Jewish king (B.C. 130). They then built another at Shechem. The bitter enmity between the Jews and Samaritans continued in the time of our Lord: the Jews had "no dealings with the Samaritans" (John 4:9; comp. Luke 9:52, 53). Our Lord was in contempt called "a Samaritan" (John 8:48). Many of the Samaritans early embraced the gospel (John 4:5-42; Acts 8:25; 9:31; 15:3). Of these Samaritans there still remains a small population of about one hundred and sixty, who all reside in Shechem, where they carefully observe the religious customs of their fathers. They are the "smallest and oldest sect in the world."

Interestingly, the Samaritans only revered the Pentateuch (first 5 books of the OT) as Scripture. However, they did have a belief that a Messiah-like figure would come and explain God's truth further to them. John 4 is recording that event. Later in Acts 8 we see more Samaritans turn to Christ.

This passage, then, is a powerful showcase of three ways (at least) in which Jesus' disregarding the social conventions of His day to speak truth to those around him:

a) gender barriers (by having a private conversation with an unknown woman). Here's a quote from the rabbis of his time about such actions: "He that talks much with womankind brings evil upon himself and neglects the study of the law and at the last will inherit Gehenna"

b) racial/ cultural barriers: Jews did not co-mingle with Samaritan "half-breeds", namely due to fears of ritual contamination

c) association with sinners: this woman's history, known clearly to Jesus', doesn't deter him from having an intimate conversation with her

The shock of this passage just keeps unfolding when we realize that Jesus is chosing this woman to be his first evangelist in this region! Not his disciples, but an adulterous woman. Notice too that her response is much more enthusiastic than that of Nicodemus, who, apparently had to mull things over for quite a while, perhaps due to his pride, of which this woman may have had very little.

And talk about the original example of indigenous missionaries being the most effective!

[Josh]

A couple other points:

1) In verse 26, it says in the NIV:

Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."

But one of my commentaries says that the New Revised Standard Version renders it better: "I am he , the one who is speaking to you" echoing the I AM of the Exodus account.

2) This passage is rare because it's one of the rare times when Jesus comes out and says he's the Messiah. Interestingly, Blomberg points out that the Samaritans expected the Messiah to be a teacher/ restorer and not a military or nationistic savior, so it may be that Jesus felt much more comfortable disclosing himself to her than to the Jews who had some false expectations of what that term meant. He also points out that John implies that this woman at this point has a better idea of who Jesus is than the disciples themselves... a story element not likely to have been invented by a disciple.

3)

32But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."

33Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"

I love the stories highlighting how dense the disciples were. I wonder if they suspected he had some doritos stashed away somewhere

[Alex]

" I wonder if they suspected he had some doritos stashed away somewhere"

I hate it when people call dibs and don't share...