John 20

[michelle]

Although Thomas the Twin was one of the twelve disciples, he wasn't with the others when Jesus appeared to them. So they told him, "We have seen the Lord!" But Thomas said, "First, I must see the nail scars in his hands and touch them with my finger. I must put my hand where the spear went into his side. I won't believe unless I do this!" A week later the disciples were together again. This time, Thomas was with them. Jesus came in while the doors were still locked and stood in the middle of the group. He greeted his disciples and said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and look at my hands! Put your hand into my side. Stop doubting and have faith!" Thomas replied, "You are my Lord and my God!" Jesus said, "Thomas, do you have faith because you have seen me? The people who have faith in me without seeing me are the ones who are really blessed!" John 20:24-29 (CEV).

Oh my gosh, I will never get tired of this story. I just love Thomas' honesty and appreciate that even though 11 other people told him something, he had to experience it for himself. I can so relate to that. I think that Jesus' reaction to Thomas' doubts are telling of God's willingness to hear and accept our doubts and to help us work through them. God is so good!

[Josh]

Jesus said, "Thomas, do you have faith because you have seen me? The people who have faith in me without seeing me are the ones who are really blessed!" John 20:24-29 (CEV).

You know, I've always seen this reference to being 'blessed' as meaning that those who believe without seeing are specially favored. But, since faith is ultimately a gift in many ways, I wonder if part of what Jesus is saying is that life/faith is easier on those people who believe without seeing- kinda like he's sympathizing with Thomas.

It's probably really the first meaning, but, hey, I can relate to the second meaning a little more right now Blessed is a hard word to translate because it can mean both "favored" and "happy", which are very different meanings.

[michelle]

admin said:

Jesus said, "Thomas, do you have faith because you have seen me? The people who have faith in me without seeing me are the ones who are really blessed!" John 20:24-29 (CEV).

I wonder if part of what Jesus is saying is that life/faith is easier on those people who believe without seeing- kinda like he's sympathizing with Thomas.

I'm not sure that I agree that life or faith is easier on those to who believe without seeing. But I could be misunderstanding what you are saying. Can you please clarify? Maybe use an example or a scenario. I think I understand best that way as opposed to something conceptual.

[Josh]

Ecclesiastes 1:18
For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.

Oh, I was just thinking that doubt makes life harder than simple faith (at least in some ways).

But here's an interesting fact I read today from Ben Witherington III (prof. of New Testament at Asbury Theological Seminary, and a leading Jesus scholar):

John 20:27
Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

He says "doubting" is a poor translation- that the word in Greek is actually "disbelieving". That's quite a bombshell, really. If that's the case, then it's not so much Thomas' questioning of whether the resurrection had really happened (and actually all the disciples went through that), it would be more about him believing false things about either Jesus or the resurrection. We could hypothesize about what that might mean, which would be an interesting exercise.

[Josh]

A couple of points I find interesting:

1. 10Then the disciples went back to their homes, 11but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

This reference in verse 12 is an awesome allusion to the ark of the covenant, which was the seat of God, surrounded on both sides by angels.

2. The fact that Jesus isn't immediately recognized by Mary is a great mark of realism/ honesty. It also emphasizes the humanity of Jesus even after his resurrection.

3. I think this resurrection story (along with the road to Emmaus story) is my favorite, just because it is so intimate and tender.
It's a good reminder that we don't serve an impersonal force, but a God who calls us by name.

4.16Jesus said to her, "Mary."
She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).

17Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

From what I've read, a better translation of the phrase I've bolded is, "do not keep holding on to me", which would make more sense: Jesus isn't scolding her for touching him, but telling her that she must accept the next phase of their relationship- where He ascends to the right hand of the Father to intercede for her as the Holy Spirit is about to come to her as the 'other' comforter Jesus promised.

Also, incidentally, this passage is just one of many that clearly assert that Jesus rose with a physical body-- what else could Mary be clinging to?

[Josh]

23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

What do you folks make of this verse- especially the second half? A lot of Protestants don't want to touch this verse, but it seems by it's placement that it must be pretty important.

[michelle]

God requires that we forgive people that wrong us. If we are unable to forgive others, how can God forgive us?

[Josh]

True enough, but why does the verse seem to say that it's up to us forgiving others or their sins won't be forgiven? (as opposed to ours not being forgiven if we don't forgive)