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Post by Josh on Feb 8, 2007 20:40:08 GMT -8
12/15/05:
It seems like I've heard Christians debate quite a bit about what it is about children which makes Christ say we must become like them: is it their innocence, free spirit, lack of self-consciousness, their genuine nature?
But doesn't verse 4 pretty much make clear the main thing Jesus is after- namely, humility. Lack of pride (which I suppose carries with it some of the ideas above) seems to be the central theme here, which is directly opposite the intent of the disciples question, "Who is the greatest?" I guess the point is that [most] children wouldn't ask that question to begin with.
That Jesus isn't saying that we should be like children in simplicity of mind is reinforced by Paul when he says:
...stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 1 Cor. 14:20b
Verse 6: heavy words to those who abuse children or lead them astray, or those who abuse the true followers of God.
Verses 7-9: Jesus uses vivid hyperbole to show us the severity of sin and to demonstrate the determination we should have to cast it aside. Question: how costly is our resistence of sin?
Verse 10 made me think of Michelle's comment about the 'angel on the shoulder'.
And the 1 sheep out of the 100 reminds me of her statement that God seems to be on the initiative in keeping her from walking away.
Lastly, forgiveness: it is obvious that forgiveness is at the heart of the gospel. Not just God's forgiveness of us, but it seems a must that we translate that into forgiveness of others. How many of us are in the prisons of unforgivenness? (Is that really a word?).
Again, I must stress that forgiveness is a genuine act of the will, nothing more, nothing less.
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Post by michelle on Feb 9, 2007 18:19:13 GMT -8
12/05:
12"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.
This idea has always really, really bothered me. I think it's great that God would rejoice at one of his children joining or rejoining his "flock". But it's always bothered me that the faithful seem to get the short end of the stick.
But after thinking about it just now, I guess God is trusting his sheep to keep each other in line. Hmmmm, I've never thought of it this way.
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Post by Josh on Feb 9, 2007 18:20:03 GMT -8
12/05:
It's the same undercurrent in the prodigal son story- the same frustration that the older brother feels.
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Post by michelle on Feb 9, 2007 18:20:50 GMT -8
12/05: Yes, and I've always had the same problem with the prodigal son. I think the issue is more present with the prodigal son because it fits a part of my life so well that I could have written it. My brother used to be a huge trouble maker. He got kicked out of the army, he's been in jail, he has a really shady past. Yet he always had my dad's full attention. Whereas my sister and I who were great students, stayed out of trouble, were involved in sports, etc. never seemed to be able to compare. It always frustrated me so much because here my sister I were great kids (the kind that most parents wish they had according to my parents' friends) but it seemed that our good actions were nothing compared to my brother who would call my dad once a year for bail money. He never sent cards for father's day or Christmas or anything, just when he needed something. And my dad would always run to his rescue and talk to him like it was the greatest day of his life. But my faithful sister and I never got a big deal made out of us. It was so frustrating to me. Still to this day it is like that, although my brother has really straightened up his act. But my sister and I never seem to be "good enough" for my dad to put effort into. When I was living in San Diego and would make the 14 hour drive home, I would get a hug and a "how was the drive" and that was pretty much it for the time I was home. But as soon as my brother made the 3 hour trek and got to our front door the party would start. After months of therapy I realized that it is a "male bonding thing", but I would be lying if I said it didn't bother me. I guess I've just always had this fantasy that somehow I could have a relationship with my father. It seems to me that as a faithful daughter I would be a priority, but that's just not the case when I'm intruding in the "man's world" that is my family. No wonder I'm such a feminist...
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Post by Josh on Feb 9, 2007 18:21:34 GMT -8
12/05:
Well, I don't think 'male bonding' is any excuse for his behavior.
I never related too much to the prodigal son, having never really been 'rebellious' to my parents at all. But I really do relate to the older brother. But, as I've thought about it, both the younger and older brother sinned- one in rebellion and one in pride (I realize all sin is probably pride ultimately, but the older brother was particularly self-righteous). And they both were invited into the party. In fact, we might miss that the Father says to us, "You are always with me, and EVERYTHING I HAVE IS YOURS" v. 31. Of course, the initial context of the passage is that the older brother is law-abiding Israel, the younger brother the 'sinners' in Israel and the Gentiles. If you think about all the benefits the law-abiding Jews had access to in God: temple, scriptures, etc.., you realize they had a 24/7 party right at their fingertips, but they were refusing to enjoy it how it was intended to be enjoyed.
Maybe those of us who relate to the older brother need to wake up and start enjoying the party that's always been here.
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Post by Josh on Feb 9, 2007 18:23:05 GMT -8
6/12/06: Mercy Mixed With Fear -Joshua Coles Jude 1:22-23 22Be merciful to those who doubt; 23snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh. Christian Accountability and Church Discipline I want to address the complicated but important issue of Christian interpersonal accountability and Church discipline. As Jay Adams says in his “Handbook of Church Discipline”, Christian accountability is a “right and privilege of every Church member”. What we are talking about here is basically, how does the Church appropriately address sin in the community? I write about this with a heavy heart. This issue is so relevant to Churches today, but it’s also a topic often avoided. Church Discipline isn’t an academic subject: it centers around people, their attitudes about obedience to Christ, and/or Christian love, and ultimately this subject tests to the extreme both our commitment to truth and our commitment to love. I’ve personally been involved in the process of Christian discipline many times, whether the subject was me or someone else I cared for deeply. I regret the times I did not fully meet the Scripture’s expectation of either true mercy or righteous judgment. I have grown tremendously from just being willing to do right by the Word of God. I have seen amazing reconciliation and restoration as well as situations that ended very sadly, but every situation was hard, regardless of the outcome. That is because “speaking the truth in love” (Eph. 4:15) is one of the hardest things we can ever do. Holiness and Grace To begin, I’d like to refresh our memory as to why we as Christians meet together in communities in the first place. To be sure, there are many Scriptural reasons, but let me address two important definitions of the Church: a group dedicated to holiness and a group dedicated to grace (1 Thess. 4:3-8, Eph. 2:8-9, Col. 3:13: see ACF’s value statement #9). Unfortunately, Christians (and humans in general) tend to polarize when it comes to grace and holiness, as if both of these qualities are at opposite ends of a spectrum—as if one can really only be focused on one or the other. But the teaching of Scripture is that one cannot exist without the other. Without grace (unearned favor), every last one of us would fail miserably in our quest to imitate Christ. Without a dogged pursuit of holiness (being set apart and transformed into Christ’s likeness, not to be confused with self-righteousness) grace will degenerate into a license for sin. And where sin is ignored, rationalized, or superficially excused, our understanding and appreciation of God’s amazing grace suffers a crippling blow. Church is about communal acknowledgement of the severity of sin, appreciation of Christ’s amazing sacrifice that cleanses us from our sin (and sharing this grace with others), and a sincere desire to become like Him in our pursuit of holiness. Where we fail on any of these three facets, we fail as a Church. Defining Discipline When we talk about “Church discipline” we must carefully define the word ‘discipline’. ‘Discipline’ in our culture often is equated with punishment- sometimes associated with demeaning and defeating kinds of punishment. But discipline, in its original definition, has more to do with learning through training (tough training, no doubt) than punitive measures. In fact, our faith was founded by the “disciples of Christ”—mere humans who Christ trained (rigorously, but lovingly) to serve him. Love and health should always be the heart of Church discipline, as hard as the process can be sometimes, and as ‘tough’ as that love may have to be. Maybe a lot of this discussion is still fuzzy. Let’s jump into the key text on ‘Church discipline’ in the Bible, and then discuss it further: Jesus on Discipline Matthew 18: 15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
b: Some manuscripts do not have ‘against you’.
As noted above, some ancient manuscripts of the Matthew omit the words ‘against you’ in verse 15. Whether that phrase is included or not, however, is really somewhat irrelevant because, ultimately, all individual sins affect the body of believers. Furthermore, the above policy seems to be the policy followed generally by Paul and the early Church in situations involving both conflict between two believers as well as a way to deal with an individual believer’s sins.
Notice the three phases in the process of discipline- individual confrontation, intervention by two or three others, and eventually intervention by the Church as a formal entity. This process is geared toward privacy and genuine dialogue, avoiding excessive drama as much as possible.
All of us, Christians though we are, sin (obviously). That is why this process is here. If we should find ourselves in a situation where we have personally ignored the conviction of the Holy Spirit and the Scripture, God calls on our brothers and sisters to gently but firmly sound a wake-up call.
Restoring Gently
I say gently because that is clearly the attitude Scripture demands that we have:
Galatians 6:
1Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
As we see in this passage, we must not approach a brother or sister in sin with self-righteous pride, either, but with genuine concern for their spiritual health.
The Next Stage
But what if the initial efforts we make to restore a brother or sister fail? It is only when someone clearly committing a sin refuses to repent (change their mind, acknowledge their error, and try to correct it) that the Church discipline process is bumped up to the next stage, involving others and more extreme measures.
It must be said that the primary goal of all of this is to restore the individual’s genuine quest for holiness, not to just communicate displeasure. This is why the process gets more and more involved as it goes along- this goal of restoration is inestimably more important than overlooking the situation. How many of us believers can think of a time or many times when we did ignore our conscience in a situation like this, only to seriously regret it later?
This process must be allowed to take some time. Rushing through Church Discipline is ill-advisable. There may be a period of time where a person is just stubbornly refusing to listen. Such a person should be treated as a brother or sister in Christ until sufficient time has elapsed and interventions have occurred.
It is a sad fact that someone who is willfully disobedient to Scripture often separates themselves because the conviction of being with other believers is too acute. But sometimes (quite rarely) there are those who flaunt their sin within the community. With such people in mind, Paul gave this advice:
2 Thess. 3:
6In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.
14If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. 15Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.
Removal from Membership?
Now, returning to Jesus’ words in Matthew 18, we noted that they ended with a solemn note: if the person still refuses to repent after the Church formally confronts them, the Church is to treat that person as a pagan or tax collector.
Strong words—how does that fit with Christ’s message of love?
Well, we must ask how Christ treated the pagan or tax collector. The answer is with love and concern- certainly not rudely or in any hostile way. But the point here is this: the person who has refused discipline is not to be considered a Christian brother or sister if they continue stubbornly and without repentance in a willful sin. The disciple John explains this further:
1 John 2:
3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Just before this passage, John readily acknowledges that Christians sin (1 John 1:8-2), but here he is speaking of a Christian who refuses to acknowledge his sin and fight against it. He is telling us that there is no point in calling such a person a Christian. But is this judging someone’s salvation? I think Paul helps us out here:
2 Timothy 2:
Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."
We can never ultimately judge a person’s eternal destiny (only the Lord knows), but we can judge a believer’s actions and use them to determine whether they should be treated as a true believer or not.
Notice how Paul dealt with a situation in which a member of the Corinthian Church refused to listen to the intervention of the formal Church:
1 Corinthians 5:
1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth. 9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
There’s a lot here we could comment on, but for the sake of brevity, let’s continue our theme from before: Paul is adamant that someone who claims to be a believer, but is refusing to acknowledge and repent of a particular, clear sin, should not no longer be considered a brother (the last-resort action that Jesus instructed the Church to do in Matthew 18).
It is important to note that we as Christians should certainly not avoid unbelievers- in fact, that’s our calling, to be ‘friends of sinners’, like Christ. But we are to carefully consider our involvement with self-professed Christians who continue in sin without repentance. Such persons, after the full process of intervention, are to be removed from the membership and authority of the Church. Does this mean they shouldn't be encouraged to come to Church? Should the person be avoided in social settings?
Jay Adams explains further:
“Incidentally, since the unrepentant person whose membership in the Church has been terminated is said to be ‘removed from the midst’, some think that he [the unrepentant person] is not to be allowed to attend worship services of the Church. That is a wrong reading of the passage. What Paul means is that he is removed from the care and discipline of the Church; he is no longer to be considered a member of the organized Church. “In the midst” means among believers, as one of them. But since he is to be treated as a heathen (Matt 18), and since heathen are permitted to attend the services of the Church (1 Corinthians 14:23-25), unless he is acting divisively he should be allowed to hear the preaching of the Word and should be witnessed to by the members, treating him like any unbeliever who enters. Perhaps God will use the preaching of the word to bring him to repentance.”
Paul used another description of the removal of Church membership- handing over to Satan.
What’s up with this ‘handing over to Satan’ business? It too easily evokes Far Side images of a red devil with a pitchfork tormenting people. Paul’s meaning is different: humans either belong under the dominion of satan or the dominion of Christ. If a Christian rejects the Lordship of Christ, then there is only one place for them to reside- the dominion of Satan, which Paul here hopes will be a last resort wake-up call causing them to return to Christ’s (and the Church’s, hopefully) loving embrace.
This is tough stuff. If you don’t find this excruciating, then something is wrong with you. But if Christ is really Who He says He is, then how could we not see the need for this kind of judgment and extreme incentive in the hopes of the return of a prodigal believer? And if, indeed, His word is "useful for teaching, rebuking, and training in righteouesness", we need to take what Scripture says seriously.
Restoration: the Hope
In the case of the Corinthian brother who was sleeping with his mother-in-law, the use of this last resort brought restoration:
2 Corinthians 2:
5If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you, to some extent—not to put it too severely. 6The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him. 7Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. 9The reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. 10If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, 11in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.
Paul’s emphasis on forgiveness, comfort, and reaffirmation for the brother or sister who does finally decide to repent is essential here. That is Christ’s example: never turning away anyone who comes to Him for forgiveness. It doesn't matter how 'shocking' the sin might seem to anyone, remembering that while different sins may have different temporal consequences, every sin is 'shocking' and every sin is forgiveable with repentance- from gossip to murder and everything in between.
Restoration is the whole object of the hard process of “speaking the truth in love”.
Paul ends this passage with a reference to Satan. How painfully true it is that Satan tries to use both sin and unwillingness to forgive those who repent as ways to outwit and destroy the Church. And any time the Church faces a situation like this, it must cause every member to examine if in any way, we have contributed to the situation whether overtly or by failure to ‘carry each others burdens in some way’.
For Further Thought and Discussion
This overview has been very simplistic- there are so many complications that arise in Church discipline that I couldn’t address in a basic article such as this. I want to recommend anyone who wants a full treatment of the subject to Jay Adam’s book entitled: Handbook of Church discipline, A Right and Privilege of Every Church Member- it is an amazing repository of wisdom and insight on the subject. The Church has a copy available to borrow.
I will leave you all with some more verses related to this subject so that, hopefully, more dialogue will result on the subject. Specific questions that anyone has would be much appreciated, such as the following:
How, practically, should we treat a Christian who has refused the discipline of the Church? Are we to completely isolate ourselves or maintain a friendship still?
What about sins that aren’t obvious, like pride? Or sins that are easy to disguise? Should we have the same confidence in addressing sins of this type?
How can we encourage healthy restoration of a repentant believer?
What exactly is the difference between sins we repeatedly struggle with and willful sin?
What does Scripture say to do differently when Christian leaders sin?
If you have any of these questions, or any others, please post a response to this, and I’ll try to respond in more detail.
More related verses:
Exhortation to use Church Discipline
2 Corinthians 12:
20For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder. 21I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
2 Corinthians 13
1This will be my third visit to you. "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses." 2I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others, 3since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you. 4For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God's power. Likewise, we are weak in him, yet by God's power we will live with him to serve you. 5Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? 6And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. 7Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong. Not that people will see that we have stood the test but that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed. 8For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. 9We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection. 10This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority—the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down.
Revelation 2
13I know where you live—where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives. 14Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality. 15Likewise you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
The Eventual Consequences of Deliberate, Unrepentant Sin:
Hebrews 10:
25Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. 26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 6:
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. 9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation.
1 John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. These two passages from Hebrews and the one in 1 John are thorny and there are different interpretations as to their exact meaning. At some point, hopefully, I’ll be able to elaborate on this theme further, which is closely tied in with the “unforgivable sin” and “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” discussed in Matthew 12:31. Suffice to say, for now, that they are sober warnings for those who sin unrepentantly. Sin in the leadership:
19Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.
More on “Handing over to Satan”:
1 Timothy 1:
18Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, 19holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. 20Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
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