Did Jesus really exist? The undisputed facts

[mrm]

How do we even know that Jesus was a real, historical person?

[Josh]

Thanks for the question, which is a good way to begin an investigation of the claims of Christianity. I've written about this elsewhere, so I'm going to borrow some of that in answering your question.

Contrary to what a few people (mostly on web sites) might claim, there is virtually no scholarly doubt that Jesus of Nazareth existed as a historical person (pro or anti- Christian scholarship)- and definitely no reasonable doubt whatsoever in my mind.

Here are two reasons (among many) why this is the case:

First is mention of Jesus in a handful of texts outside of the Bible, written within a hundred years of his life (Josephus, Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, the Jewish Talmud) all of which affirm his existence, as well as provide other details that corraborate the Gospel accounts. These accounts are not biased in favor of Christianity, and some can be considered hostile.

Secondly, the historical accuracy of details in the New Testament and the short amount of time that transpired between Jesus' life and the writing of significant portions of the New Testament work together to cause nearly all serious scholars of the 1st Century to admit at least his existence.

In addition to that, there are many other facts in the New Testament accounts of Jesus that receive almost universal acceptance among scholars. If you're investigating Christianity seriously for the first time, it's really helpful to know the undisputed facts before delving into the more hotly contested ones.

In a dialouge with a friend a couple years ago, I made a list of just some of these facts about Jesus that almost all scholars concede:

Jesus...

-was considered a 'prophet' in Israel, even by those indifferent or even hotile to his message

-was considered a worker of miracles in his day, even among those hostile to his ministry

-made religious claims that upset many of the religious leaders of his day

-preached, as his central message, repentance and the announcement of a new kingdom

-was apocalyptic in his preaching (focused on the fulfillment of Jewish prophecies)

-was eventually arrested and charged with blasphemy (probably and sedition against Rome

-was executed at the instigation of Jewish religious leaders and by the authority of the Roman procurator (Pontius Pilate)

and that...

-shortly after his death his followers were claiming that he had 'risen from the dead'

-about three years after his death, a Jewish leader who was persecuting the new Christian had a conversion experience and became one of the most influential Christian leaders (Paul)

-most (or at least many) of Jesus’ disciples plus many other followers ended up dying for their belief in Jesus' resurrection, even though recanting their belief would have saved their lives.

Feel free to challenge any of these statements.

[Sandy Pines]

Hey guys. Haven't visited this forum in a while, hope you don't think I'm avoiding you guys.

My question today is: What type of evidence is there that Jesus Christ actually existed? I totally believe that he did exist, but while talking to people outside the Christian faith they sometimes ask for evidence that Jesus lived on earth. I haven't done much research on the topic so I thought I'd stop by here first to ask.

Also, what sources (outside the Bible) speak of Jesus' existence and the miracles he performed?

Thanks in advance and I hope you guys are doing well.

[robin]

Here is some extra-biblical evidence for the historical Jesus.

Josephus (who was not a Christian) wrote in "Antiquities" some 50 years after the death of Jesus

"Now there arose at this time a source of further trouble in one Jesus, a wise man who performed surprising works, a teacher of men who gladly welcome strange things. He led away many Jews, and also many of the Gentiles. He was the so-called Christ. When Pilate, acting on information supplied by the chief men around us, condemned him to the cross, those who had attached themselves to him at first did not cease to cause trouble, and the tribe of Christians, which has taken this name from him is not extinct even today. "

Tacitus wrote in "Annals, book XV"

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."

Suetonius wrote in "Lives of Caesar's - Claudius".

"He banished from Rome all the Jews, who were continually making disturbances at the instigation of one Chrestus. "

There is more but this is a good start.

[Sandy Pines]

Thanks Robin that was helpful. Anyone else have any comments?

[krhagan19]

Robin, I totally believe you, but I want to be able to use this evidence, can you give me a solid source for those quotes so that I can speak with authority when citing them? I now you gave the original documents but what is a modern book that would have them as well?
Best Regards,
Kevin

[tim]

I enjoyed this Youtube clip of The Infidel Guy interviewing Dr. Bart Ehrman where he asks if Jesus was actually a historical person. They also discuss if Paul was the actual author of his letters, especially Galatians. It's kind of funny to hear The Infidel Guy mumble his way through half-thought out and half-remembered things he has heard over the years. I was happy that Dr. Ehrman had no agenda except for stating the facts.

I hope you enjoy it too!

[Josh]

I am seriously laughing out loud right now listening to this. It's pretty awesome hearing one of the big critics of Christianity schooling an armchair atheist crank. Mo, if you're out there, I suppose it's akin to listening to us berate some of the worst expressions of Christianity

It's amazing to me how many people you bump into these days who want to question the existence of Jesus. I blame it pretty squarely on the increasingly muddled logic of our current uber-postmodern generation.

[LadyAjax]

Facebook has made me lazy. Can I just "Like" this thread?

[Josh]

Sept 10, 2011 17:03:32 GMT -8 LadyAjax said:

Facebook has made me lazy. Can I just "Like" this thread?

Jacque- when version 5 of proboards comes out and these forums are updated, there will be a new "like" feature similar to facebook.