Revelation 21

[jaybee]

Well, work on my research paper has been slow, and it has ultimately evolved for now into a series of posts on my blog rather than a paper. Here are the first two posts. I will give them one more scrub and then post them on my blog tomorrow, but I figured I'd go ahead and throw them up here:

Before I begin the first of several posts, I want to make something clear. I did not set out to prove what I am about to present. I expected to arrive at a much different, and closer to "mainstream," conclusion. However, I cannot deny scripture.

Some of my readers may blow me off, some may call this heretical, and others may just call me too ignorant in advanced education and/or tradition to understand scripture, but I hope most of you will wrestle with God's word, will cease elevating popular tradition to the level of inspired scripture, and can let the Bible speak louder than any admired commentator on your bookshelf. For those who do the latter three things, I believe what I am about to present will hold true, and will completely change how you understand many things Christ said during his time on earth, how you understand Paul, how you see the end times, and so much more!

As I move into my first post, I hope - and really beg - that you will hear me out through the entire series of posts I will publish. Please have your Bible as you read my posts. Conduct your own scriptural studies and testings of what I am writing, and be willing to side with the Bible if you find traditions, commentators, or teachers do not fit scripture. I will try to keep my posts limited in length, so that each will be fairly quick to read, study, and review.

Also, please feel free to engage with me to ask for more material, offer opinions, or look for clarity on a point, especially if you disagree. You can email me, message me on Facebook, comment on my Facebook links, or comment on these posts, whatever works for you.

Revelation 20 and 21
Now, let me jump right in with a quick and oversimplified look at Revelation 20:

1. An angel binds Satan & throws him into a pit
2. Reign of Christ for 1000 years
3. Satan released
4. Battle seemingly preempted between Satan and the beloved city
5. Devil thrown in lake of fire
6. White throne judgment
7. Unsaved people, death, and Hades thrown into the lake of fire

It has been my understanding, and I believe is the generally accepted opinion, that Revelation 21 sequentially follows Revelation 20. After the final judgment, John witnesses the creation of a new heaven and a new earth with the heavenly Jerusalem coming down - Rev 21:1-2.

[/em]
Hebrews 12:22-23 shows us that this heavenly Jerusalem is associated with Mount Zion, it is God's city, and is made up of the general assembly, and the "church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven."[/ul]

An Initial Problem
Upon a thorough reading of Revelation 21, a problem readily emerges: the language does not allow for it to be placed after the final judgment of Revelation 20.

1. Rev 21:3 "And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,"
   
   
   
2. 21:5 "And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”"

[/em] all things new."[/ul]

[/li][li]21:6 "Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost."

[/li][li]21:7 "“He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son."

[/em]has now inherited..."[/ul]

[/li][li]21:8 "“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”"

[/em]their part in the lake of fire... which was their second death."[/ul]

[/li][li]21:24 "The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it."

[/li][li]21:25 "In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;"

[/li][li]21:26 "and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;"

[/li][li]21:27 "and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life."

[/li][/ol]

It should be fairly clear with these points, that the language of Revelation 21 places it before the final judgment, and even before the end of humanity at the end of the millennium.

More Evidence: The Hebrews 12 Dilemma
If we return to Hebrews 12, where we found the expanded description of the heavenly Jerusalem, it adds to the evidence that Revelation 21 cannot sequentially follow the final judgment of Revelation 20. In Hebrews 12, the heavenly Jerusalem is seen as already here and accessible to the earthly believer. This would seem to mean that somewhere between Revelation 21's prophecy of the heavenly Jerusalem's arrival and the writing of Hebrews, the heavenly Jerusalem has arrived.

Additionally, since Revelation 21 really cannot be split, but all centers around the arrival of the heavenly Jerusalem, it would also appear that the entirety of Revelation 21 must have occurred by the writing of Hebrews 12.

Conclusion
I hope I have not lost you yet. This might go against everything you were taught, it certainly did for me, but I have to believe the inspired scripture more than I believe any tradition or college course. Many of you are now at the first point I arrived at, being forced to consider what the scriptures say, but not understanding how it will all work out in relation to other details held in Revelation 21. However, I encourage you to have faith as I did. Know that the scriptures will not contradict themselves, and if these scriptures show Revelation 21 happened before the final judgment of Revelation 20, and before the writing of Hebrews, then the rest of scriptures will back this up. It is the rest of scripture that we will begin to look at in our next post...

Notes
*While not explored here, if John's vision was prophetic and showed an event that had not yet occurred, then this would greatly impact the understood date of authorship for the book of Revelation.

To spell it out in a different way: If Revelation 21 is supposed to be a future event at the time of its writing, and if Hebrews says the event has occurred, then Revelation must have been written before Hebrews.

More consideration for the dating of the book of Revelation can be found within my post, here.

**All passages utilize the NASB, but other major translations have been consulted to ensure the NASB is not providing an obscure translation of any referenced passage.[/quote]

[jaybee]

In the last post, we saw from John's word tenses that Revelation 21 cannot be placed after the final judgment of Revelation 20. Not only that, but Hebrews 12 indicates the arrival of the heavenly Jerusalem occurred by the time of its authorship. Additionally, as Revelation 21 deals with events surrounding the holy city's arrival, it would seem the entirety of Revelation 21 should be considered to have occurred before Hebrews was written.

I understand if you are still struggling with this. Upon realizing what I have shown you so far, I just sat stunned in my chair at the local coffee shop as I considered the implications. However, I finally had to stop daydreaming about implications, and get back to scriptures. I trusted that if the scriptures we have looked at are as plain as they seem to be here, and given that scripture does not contradict scripture, then the rest of scripture will support this new understanding of the fulfillment of Revelation 21. Let me assure you, it does.

For some the following will not sound as thrilling as the idea of planes crashing and chaos reigning as people disappear from all over the earth in a pre-tribulation rapture. For others it could ruin the anticipation of the next life as we consider that the holy city of heavenly Jerusalem might not be real in a literal sense. Also, some may consider the things I am presenting might just not be worth believing simply because it is not the popular idea. But I would hope for all that the authority of scripture will outweigh the desire to believe what is popular or exciting.

One more thing to keep in mind as I continue on this matter, there are details I was not alive in history for. Thus, the overwhelming evidence must be considered, while some minutia may have to be assumed to have happened by trusting: that if it is in scripture, if scripture says it has happened, then it must have happened even if we do not know how because we were not there.

Lets continue our study of Revelation 21:

"Then I saw..."

"a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away,"

Let me pose a critical question - If most things in Revelation are symbolic, then aren't the odds increased that heaven and earth in Revelation could be symbolic?

Regarding Old Heaven and Earth - The ones that pass away

If Revelation 21 has already been fulfilled to include the passing of heaven and earth to make way for the new ones which preempted the holy city's arrival, then what heaven and earth passed away if heaven and earth are still here?

The answer was surprisingly simple once I conducted a word search in the Bible for places where heaven and earth is used. A few instances are considered here:

[li]Leviticus 26:19 "I will also make your [heaven] like iron and your earth like bronze."

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[/ul]
[/quote][/li]

[li]Isaiah 51:16 “I have put My words in your mouth and have covered you with the shadow of My hand, to establish the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’”

[/p]

[/ul]

[/li]

So what is this heaven and earth that seems to be different from the physical one?

Have you ever heard of somebody who is said to exist in their own world? Or heard of somebody telling their lover that their lover is their world? It is in this sense that I believe we find this heaven and earth as it relates to Israel. They existed in their own world, or had their own heaven and earth, which was founded upon the Law. This is plain to see in the benefits that would accompany their obedience to the Law: they would be blessed, have bountiful crops, etc. Adherence to the Law permitted Israel to live under their own heaven and upon their own earth, untouched by external problems the gentile "world" would encounter. Obviously, we know from history that Israel did not follow the Law which governed their personal heaven and earth that God created for them, and they paid the price for it.

I am not saying that every reference to heaven and earth in the Bible is related to the ones unique to Israel, but I am showing that some instances must be understood to mean something different than physical heaven and earth that we all exist under and upon.

To further support this understanding:

[li]Deuteronomy 30:19 - heaven and earth are called to witness against Israel.

[/li]

[li]Deuteronomy 31:26 - Israel is told the Book of the Law will be the witness against them.

[/li]

[li]Deuteronomy 31:28 - the heaven and earth are again seen as bearing witness against people of Israel.

[/li]

Now returning to the Isaiah 51:16 passage, we can understand heaven and earth to in some instances be related to Israels personal situation with God and the Law.

A Further Look as Israel's Heaven and Earth
Paul writes to the Galatians regarding elemental things - Gal 4:3, 9. The understanding of the Greek "stoicheion" can be of elements, elementary, elemental things, or elemental principles.

To the general reader, the elemental things which Paul relates to the world might be seen by a Christian to relate to the secular/sinful/flesh world. However, when one takes context into account, they will find the elemental things are discussed in parallel to the Law.

Moving on, 2 Peter 3:10, 12 looks to the burning up of the elements. Peter uses the same "stoicheion" that we just saw Paul use in conjunction with the Law. This would be understood as the same Law that established the idiosyncratic heaven and earth for Israel.

It is interesting that 2 Peter 3:10 associates the heavens that will pass away with the elementary principles (things of the Law according to Paul), and associates the earth that will be burned up with the works. Thus, we have Peter painting a picture of the removal of the personalized heaven and earth Israel used to have with God, one that involved the Law and works.

If heaven and earth is understood in the sense of the world in which God's people live in relationship with God, even while on this earth, then one can understand why the heaven and earth God had established with just the Jews, and based upon the Law had to be ended. A new heaven and earth had to be established to include the Gentiles, and it would be based upon Christ's work.

Have you ever heard the phrase, his world came crashing down? This is the parallel idea to Israel's heaven and earth passing away. This is why Paul worked so hard to reassure the Jews of what they had, and what now was.

Christ looked to the day heaven and earth would pass away in the sense of the removal of the bubble Israel had been offered to live in for so long.

Matthew 5:18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

[/ul]

Matthew 24:35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away."

[/ul]

Recap of the Old Heavens and Earth
Heaven and earth can relate to a state of being, rather than a place of being. The heaven and earth as God established them specifically for Israel, is seen to directly be related to their living arrangement with God and the Law. New dynamics introduced by Christ necessitated the end of this living arrangement. Peter anticipated this end of heaven and earth, or the Law and works system. This end is referred to as the passing of heaven and earth.

Regarding the New Heaven and Earth
Seeing how the phrase heaven and earth does not have to relate to something physical, and can be used to more relate to a state of being, we can now easily understand what the new heaven and earth should be. The new heaven and earth is the current reality for Christians, related to God and Christ. This is why, with the new heaven and new earth reality, the church is seen to enter the picture.

The old heaven and earth was associated with the establishment of the nation of Israel, and the new heaven and earth is associated with the establishment of the church.

Isaiah proves that the new heaven and earth should not be seen as the final destination of the believer, but the world the church lives in. In Isaiah 65:17-25, the passage anticipates the same new heavens and earth that is referenced in Revelation 21. Much of Revelation 21 is seen in this Isaiah passage, as well as parts of Hebrews 12. While a complete study cannot be done right now on the Isaiah passage, two easy points can be taken from it:

1. v20 - There is still death in the new heaven and earth.
2. v23 - There is still childbearing, and descendants

Automatically, this shows us that the new heaven and new earth still hold dynamics of this life, not life at our final destination where there is no more death, marriage, etc. Rather than try to explain these issues away as some schools of theology might, a truthful reading of the scriptures as I have been presenting here provides a straight forward understanding. The new heaven and new earth is a current reality, as well as the death and birth Isaiah says will happen within the new heaven and new earth.

Conclusion
I know this is a lot to process, I know it was for me, so even though I have stirred up 101 new questions, we will stop here. In the next post, we will begin with the missing sea of Revelation 21.

Notes
Beyond this, the readers must consider further implications:

If Christ said nothing would pass from the Law until heaven and earth passed, and the ushering in of the new heaven and earth is shown to have happened, then this shows that heaven and earth as he spoke about them did pass, thus the Law has passed.

Also, if Mt 24 events related to the passing of heaven and earth, and if Heb 12 and Rev 21 show that has happened, then Mt 24 has happened.

There are more implications, but I do not have time to give them proper consideration now. I leave it to the readers to contemplate.

[/quote]

[Josh]

Great drawing together of the relevant passages. I kept thinking as I was reading, "oh, he should reference this scripture..." only to find you doing so in short order.  Nice!

Sounds like you're writing in an environment that might react negatively to the arguments you're putting forth.  I take it the preterist position in general is probably overlooked or maligned in your educational setting?

I particularly like your emphasis on "I am making all things new", as I think one of the ways to soften the blow of positing that Rev. 21 describes a current reality, is to emphasize that this chapter announcing the beginning of Jesus' kingdom/ the new heavens and the new earth.  And just as Jesus said the kingdom would be like a mustard seed growing into a giant tree that shelters many birds, I think we can see the descriptors in Rev. 21 as things that have been continuing to grow and expand ever since the first century. 

I'm sure you're going to be covering this later, but of course probably the biggest apparent hurdle to your position in many peoples minds would be verse 4:

4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

[Josh]

Also, I'm thinking that you might want to cover your thoughts on these two verses:

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

I say that because these two verses reference Rev. 20 which you (and I) hold to be yet future.   So, is verse 8 just anticipating the future judgment?  Is verse 27 saying that those who are in the kingdom now already have their names written in the book that will be opened in the future?

[christopher]

Good work Jaybee!

Remember, the words "mainstream", "orthodoxy", and "heretical" are all a matter of one's perspective based on traditions of men and used to discourage critical thinking.  Don't let anyone do that to you.  These ideas are more mainstream than some might think.

Keep it up.

[jaybee]

Thanks Josh and Chris.

Yeah, I'm writing in an oppressive environment to such thoughts. Most of my blog readers are my friends from seminary and my old church who disagree with me.

Although, I went back through and toned down the appeals to reason that are in the copies here, on my blog.

Josh, I have more posts I am working on that will walk through Rev 21, and will cover the verses you brought up. I expect my posts will turn into a 5 part series.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Josh]

jaybee, anything ever come of this "5 part series"? I'm curious to see how your thinking has developed since last we talked.

[jaybee]

Haha, my 5 part series has turned into a book I hope to have to publishers by January.

I'm taking next semester off of school to complete it.

[Josh]

I really want to hear your thoughts on "no more pain, crying, mourning, and death" (21:4). Is this an aspect you see as having a fuller future fulfillment? I think coupled with 1 Cor 15: 26 it would be.