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Post by Josh on Jul 13, 2009 6:36:07 GMT -8
So, I finally got around to jumping into this book recommended by Robin and Chris. A thorough case for Christian universalism, I blitzed through the first 100 pages on the flight home and have found it very compelling so far.
I'll keep you posted!
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Post by Josh on Jul 16, 2009 21:49:02 GMT -8
Robin,
You should have been at Pubagetics tonight. You would have been proud of me, giving my best apologetic for Talbott's universalism ;D
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Post by robin on Jul 17, 2009 7:21:19 GMT -8
I would love to have heard it. Sorry I missed you last night. Maybe next time. By the way, did you finish the book?
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Post by Josh on Jul 17, 2009 9:28:52 GMT -8
No, haven't finished it yet.
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Post by Josh on Jul 18, 2009 17:47:12 GMT -8
Still not done (reading is much slower as a stay at home dad), but some thoughts so far:
Talbott makes a strong case for Paul's universalism, uncovering Scriptures that most of us have remarkably never even seen in that light. Some of these we have discussed already on the Universalism thread, of course, but it was great to see them pretty thoroughly exegeted.
His historical analysis of the evolution of afterlife theology was well reasoned and convincing.
His section on "God is Love" is probably the best little chapter-length rebuttal of Calvinism I think I've ever read.
I'm still mulling over his interepretation of the "unforgiveable sin". Not sure if I agree on his take on it.
Lastly, and this is only said after the preceding praise, the major thing I'm not sure I agree with is his "three pictures of God" thesis. In other words, I think he's making a good case for universalism, but not through his main thesis. More on that later.
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Post by christopher on Jul 19, 2009 8:40:50 GMT -8
That's the part I disagreed with as well. Talbott seemed to be suggesting some variation of limited atonement of Jesus' death. And that those who didn't accept that atonement would need to atone for their own sins after death and then be reconciled. I don't think that jibes with scripture. For example: 2 Cor 5:18-1918 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.NKJV
I understand Talbott's logic (and it is sound), but I believe somehow in the grand scheme of things, the cross is the only bridge of reconciliation period. The atonement remains the biggest mystery of God in my mind. |
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Post by Josh on Jul 21, 2009 17:57:18 GMT -8
Yes, that was precisely my sentiment as well. I remember this issue came up a while ago on our "UV" thread as well.
However, I'm not sure that his way of explaining the unforgiveable sin is the only way one could explain it and still hold the universalist view.
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Post by Josh on Jul 21, 2009 17:57:38 GMT -8
Yes, that was precisely my sentiment as well. I remember this issue came up a while ago on our "UV" thread as well.
However, I'm not sure that his way of explaining the unforgiveable sin is the only way one could explain it and still hold the universalist view.
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Post by Josh on Jul 21, 2009 18:09:31 GMT -8
elsewhere, Chris wrote: This was a good synopsis of Talbott's main thesis. However, I don't think that point three necessarily follows, as I discussed at greater length on the UV thread (page 2: aletheia.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=afterlife&action=display&thread=1145&page=2 ) My response, in a nutshell would be: 1. The bible says it is God's desire that all are reconciled to Him 2. The bible says that God is all-powerful enough to bring His desires and His will about. 3. God chooses a reality in which his desires are not always met. This is His will, and His will is always accomplished. Anyway, I don't think Talbott or other universalists need a thesis like the one above to make their case sufficiently. I'm pretty impressed merely with their exegesis of relevent passages. |
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Post by Josh on Jul 23, 2009 11:41:08 GMT -8
I love Talbott's insistence that God's mercy and justice are one in the same. It just makes so much more sense than seeing them as opposing forces within the Godhead.
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Post by Josh on Jul 29, 2009 16:32:11 GMT -8
Talbott's thoughts on the problem of pain are also insightful.
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Post by Josh on Jul 31, 2009 15:36:17 GMT -8
Finished it today. Great book. It will give me lots to chew on for years to come I think. It's been a while since I had this kind of experience in reading.
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