Free will in Hell/ the Afterlife?

[hume]

Originally posted 10/05:

Here's a basic question about hell (or the afterlife in general): do we continue to possess free will after death? Are the d**ned capable of decision, of change? If you say no, you're in a puzzling position; you seem to believe that death includes the genuine, final death of free will -- so essentially, the afterlife is not really a form of life; something crucial has been removed. Is it retained among the elect? Then Judgement includes the destruction of free will, which is arguably the same as saying that Judgement equals annihilation (yeah, some sort of creature remains to suffer, but it's just a sort of ghostly remnant of the individual).
If you say yes, free will continues for everyone after death, then you're left with two options regarding the status of "the d**ned":

1. They have the opportunity to repent, change, etc. like any free creature; however, God has chosen to ignore them. They had their chance on earth, it's too late now. They have free will, but essentially it's incapable of changing their situation in any way. Wishful thinking, empty hopes.

or,

2. God allows them some opportunity to make meaningful use of their free will. They can repent, and return to Him.

[Josh]

Originally posted 10/05:

I'm not thinking this one out, but....
Perhaps they retain their free will, but because of the 'timelessness' or 'timefulness' of heaven, that free will is static.

[hume]

Oh yeah, that whole eternity thing. Hmmm.

[previousm]

Originally posted 10/05:

Wow, you guys were busy while I was out of town!!! Jason, you bring up an interesting point that I've never really thought about. Do we retain our free will after we die?? It makes me think about Lucifer being the "fallen angel". I remember always hearing (and I'm not sure why) that angels had/have no choice but to love God, but He gave humans free will so that we could choose (or not choose) Him and give Him the type of love he could not get from the angels. But that wouldn't explain how Lucifer could turn on God and be cast out of Heaven. So if Lucifer can have free will, it would make sense that there is free will in Heaven. Granted, Lucifer was not human so he would not have carried his free will into the "after life", but I think one can deduce that we would have free will as well. It seems like what would keep one from "sinning" in Heaven is being in the presence of the Glory of God.

[Josh]

Originally posted 10/05:

But, of course, Lucifer was in the presence of God and he still chose evil.
Perhaps what allows us to 'forever chose God' without changing is the fact that we have been forgiven and redeemed. It's not that the angels envy us our choice-- it's that they envy us God's mercy:
10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things. (1 Peter 1:10-12)

It also seems that Scripture implies that angels (even though they have free will) will never rebel against God again, having seen the results of Satan's fall.

[sarah]

Originally posted 10/05:

Wouldn't the whole angels having sex with humans and producing offspring in Genesis count as rebellion after the fall?

[Josh]

Originally posted 10/05:

Perhaps, but I've always taken it that those angels were already fallen. But you could be right. Angelology is really quite speculative. Like we were talking on Sunday, we don't really have any sure fire statements about all of this until the NT (and those pesky books like 1 Enoch).

[rodgertutt]

I believe that Satan's choosing evil was God's idea.
In fact I think it is silly not to think so.
It is obvious to me that God withheld from Satan the knowledge that it temporarily would not be in his best interest to choose evil.
God had the ability to impress upon Satan that choosing evil would be counter-productive, but God didn't do that.
If Satan had understood that, he never would have chosen evil in the first place. God let Satan think that he would be better off rebelling against God.

I like the way Ray Prinzing (my hero) puts it.
"God thrust Satan into the negative realm to become the loyal opposition."
And C.S. Lewis adds, "The greatest surprise for Satan will occur when he learns that he has perfectly been doing the will of God all along."

I believe that God will eradicate all evil and suffering from existence after He has used their temporary existence to teach all the lessons that He wants everyone to learn from them.

Here is a great link on the subject!
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html

[Josh]

Hmmmm,

So you would challenge the notion that satan had truly free will? That seems problematic to me.

[rodgertutt]

Jan 16, 2009 18:50:06 GMT -8 Josh said:

Hmmmm,

So you would challenge the notion that satan had truly free will? That seems problematic to me.

Personally Josh, I have a bigger problem when I DON'T attribute Satan's choosing evil to God wanting it to happen.

It would have been easy for God to make it plain to Satan that it would be counter-productive to choose evil, but intead, God allowed Satan to think that it would be in his own best interests to choose evil because God had (has) a plan that will demonstrate that when His plan for the ages of time has been consummated, it will be seen by all that it was better for everyone that Satan (and all other fallen creatures) temporarily thought they would gain by choosing evil.
This link is SO GOOD about this matter!
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html