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Post by Josh on May 1, 2011 20:23:04 GMT -8
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Post by robin on May 1, 2011 21:20:20 GMT -8
How should we feel? Some mixed emotions on my part. I'm glad that he was finally tracked down, but I'm not on board with those dancing in the street. To celebrate in that fashion seems to be a bit over the top.
I do think that Obama's speech was well done.
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Post by Josh on May 2, 2011 17:52:14 GMT -8
I hear you.
Ezekiel 33:11a
Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked...
This verse has been going through my head a lot today.
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Post by carebear on May 2, 2011 18:37:20 GMT -8
I think obama should have used words like 'we' and 'us' instead of 'I ordered' or 'my directive' in his speech yesterday. it just seemed like he was kinda wanting to use it for his political gain too and I think that would be cheese if true. no president should take credit for bin laden's capture/death. only the men on the ground can and those with skills in secret intelligence.
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Post by Josh on May 2, 2011 19:03:38 GMT -8
I think it's just the way the Commander-in-Chief is supposed/ expected to talk about military operations. The buck stops with him- whether the outcome is good or bad.
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Post by Jeremy on May 2, 2011 19:09:41 GMT -8
I myself was very surprised to hear the news and actually was informed by my neighbor as I came home about the news.
My immediate reaction was surprise as I thought he had a good chance to remain hidden for quite some time and never expected us to actually find him given the relative success of guerilla-type warfare in history (e.g. Vietnam, Revolutionary War) but after the surprise I was confused. I felt good that we got him but it felt a bit weird to "feel good" about a death. "Am I in the wrong to feel this way?" was my thought. Then when I heard the multiple gunshots at very close range and even others with fireworks in my extremely residential Beaverton neighborhood which BTW is right next door to Southridge High - yes a HIGH SCHOOL, I was even more surprised that someone would go further than just a simple feeling of justice. Then I thought maybe they personally knew someone in NY or in the air at the time or at some other world location bombed by him, BUT EVEN SO, it doesn't sit right in me that others would do that.
Also, to link this to Sunday, I wonder about David's first reactions/thoughts/emotions when he heard of the death of Nabal who had wronged him.
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Post by Josh on May 2, 2011 20:27:28 GMT -8
Someone on facebook pointed out, as a counter-point to the verse above:
When the righteous prosper, the city rejoices; when the wicked perish, there are shouts of joy.
Proverbs 11:10
Besides the fact that this Proverbs verse doesn't chime in with a moral judgment but merely observes a fact, here's how I responded to this tension on facebook:
"to see a bad man punished and feel some satisfaction in human. It happens all the time in the Old Testament (just read the Psalms!) But, since we are now, in Christ "new creations" and we are called to be "imitators of God", well, do the math....."
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Post by Josh on May 2, 2011 20:28:18 GMT -8
Is it gauche to quote yourself?
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Post by Kirby on May 2, 2011 21:07:40 GMT -8
One interesting take I read via Facebook today: www.commondreams.org/view/2011/05/02-2another that made me think: "I would probably feel better about this whole event if we hadn't spent the last 10 years creating thousands of new Bin Ladens." Is it gauche to use the word gauche? |
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Post by rbbailey on May 2, 2011 21:52:14 GMT -8
I have already dealt with a lot of this emotion stuff about war and killing because of what people I know do for a living: I do not like it, but I am very glad for it.
It never occurred to me that my gladness that the deed was done might border on offensive blood-lust. I'm in control of those feelings now.
I didn't dance with fireworks and a flag. I just stood in my living room waiting to hear that no Americans were hurt. Very satisfied. Relieved that he is finally dead, relieved that no more of ours are dead because of him.
When God says he takes no pleasure in the death of an evil man (to not quite quote) we must also read how God deals justice on the murdering, hateful, evil man with a violent and bloody outcome. In a strange way that probably cannot be expressed in English, I do not think God thinks of death in the same way we do.
With this thought I long ago comforted myself with the idea that the good warrior, doing bloody deeds, is necessary because the evil murderer exists. It is not something to rejoice about, it is something to accept -- and in fact, support.
I accept the fact that I was happy to see him dead. I accept the fact that his death was the best option, regardless of our sometimes overly active feelings for democratic justice in a court room.
Our feelings about any given subject, whether it is feelings of hate or love or vengeance or liberal sympathies, can lead us astray. The hateful rejoicing at his death is just as bad as the sappy desire to make sure no one ever has to die at the hands of another. One is better than the other, but it is still an extreme that ignores reality -- reality is in the middle -- and sometimes we must be glad for those who deal death on our behalf.
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Post by carebear on May 2, 2011 22:21:26 GMT -8
Still think he should have used 'we' and 'our'
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Post by matthew on May 3, 2011 11:45:02 GMT -8
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Post by robin on May 4, 2011 7:12:52 GMT -8
One thing is becoming clear. Enhanced interrogations (water boarding) was instrumental in tracking down OBL. Also if the rumors that OBL was not armed and the orders were given to Kill him are true, this would be very sad for our country. Despite what happened on 9-11, I still think that a civilized country should not intentionally kill an unarmed man.
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Post by Josh on May 4, 2011 15:37:24 GMT -8
In one sense it is wrong to rejoice when your enemy dies, in another it is okay. Despite the semantics, the difference is this: are we taking pleasure in the fact that justice has been done or that innocent people are now safer or are we taking pleasure in the fact that a sinner is suffering and being judged.
If it's the second, then it shows how shallow our understanding of our own sin and God's grace really is.
If it's the first, well, within reason we have reason to be relieved.
I'm not a pacifist; I think it's entirely possible (though rare) for someone to kill an enemy and love them at the same time. But it's always a sad thing when a life goes astray and suffers because of their own folly- whether it's "us" or "them"
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Post by robin on May 8, 2011 20:25:00 GMT -8
I have this sense of pity for OBL. I see these picture and videos of this rather pathetic and disheveled old man living in sub-par conditions and it seems a bit sad. also if you consider the fact that this pathetic old man was killed, unarmed in front of his family, it takes some of the joy out of this whole scenario. Am I the only one that feels this way?
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Post by krhagan19 on Aug 10, 2011 0:30:40 GMT -8
I for one will not miss him. . .
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