Will the Final Judgment be Painful for Christians?

[Josh]

What do you think from your understanding of Scripture? Will there be a painful element to our final judgment?

[freebirdro]

I think the pain is here on earth, based on how much of God you are taking in, what scriptures do you know about this?

[Josh]

Well, here are some I apply to the final judgment of believers, which indicate unpleasant elements to the judgment we will face as Christ's sacrifice finally completes our full sanctification:

1 Cor. 3:10

By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Matthew 12:36

36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.

2 Cor. 5:9-10

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Romans 14:10

You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister ? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.

James 2:12-13

12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Some of you may not think all of these passages are actually about the final judgment of all men (Rev. 20), but probably you all accept that some of them are. And each of them presents something potentially painful about the final judgment. The point here is that the final judgment won't just be all "flowers and roses" for followers of Christ, but a final, sober realization of our sin and the need for Christ's cleansing blood- sober enough that it can be spoken of as a "fire", a legal proceeding, and an "accounting".

[freebirdro]

The only verse that is real clear about believers is the : 1Cor. 3:10 , mentions " the saved"

As I see it is also saying '" suffer a loss", the absence of reward?

The flame can indicate a painfull loss, don't you think is pretty painfull enough to live forever knowing you miss out on something special from God, if just build the right way the first time in this life?

I just don't see Jesus burning up his forgiven children, sounds to me like half forgivness/? is this a catolic believe?, did this concept appeared during the church tax collection period?. Did that could influence believers to give more for their small sins?

In the end God is more concern with our willingness to serve him out of love instead of fear, If good result is achieved by fear of fire, then that result should not be rewarded in my opinion. I will not reward my kids for something they did because of fear, if I know it, but I will reward for doing things because they love.

[Josh]

Why don't you think the other references are about believers?*

The Romans passage mentions brothers and sisters (only used in the context of believers in the NT), the 2 Cor. passage says we, the Matthew passage says all men, and the James passage is addressed to believers.

I'm not saying what exactly the pain will be. I'm certain the "fire" is a metaphor not a literal one, but I think there will be at least a moment of deep sadness and regret for our sins- one last finally honest look at what we are without Christ.

I agree that fear is not the best motivation, but all of these passages rely somewhat on it as a reminder that rather that the judgment is a serious thing and it does matter how much we live right now as the redeemed of the Lord.

*interestingly, the 1 Cor. 3 passage is the one at least that I know Chris doesn't think applies to all Christians, but only to leaders/ apostles/ church planters.

[freebirdro]

What I am saying is that is not really clear about what that will be, we can only assume certain things about what will be.
I agree with you that there will be a moment of deep sadness. But I feel that after I say forgive me Lord, he forgive me for all of my sins and our relationship does not have any
'' I owe you something bro'' in pain tokens

But rather every moment in my life is connected with a reward and if that moment is wasted, the reward is wasted, and of course there may be earthly effects also. This is my assumption.


I just hope that our joy will be greater that our brief sadness, Pain, fire, or whatever that loss will be.

[christopher]

I find myself only half agreeing with both of you. As you know, any passage in isolation can sound like it says one thing or the other and make our case. But add a few other passages, and we might balance out our understanding.

My personal take on it is that the only sins that we will be judged for in the end are those we fail to see in the hear and now. I don’t believe God will judge us for the sins we’ve already repented for.

Ps 103:12
As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
NKJV

Also, there are passages that indicate that if we repent, we’re actually judging our own sins and removing the need for God to do so further.

1 Cor 11:31
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
NKJV


1 John 1:8-9
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
NKJV

Remember the tax collector Jesus compared to the Pharisee?

Luke 18:13-14
13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
NKJV

If we have settled our accounts with God, I don’t think that there is any further judgment for those sins and we may have peace about meeting God.

1 John 2:28-29
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
NKJV

1 John 4:17-18
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
NKJV

It’s because Jesus already dealt with those sins that we need not fear further retribution and can have only an expectation of a pleasant judgment day.

Heb 9:27-28
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
NKJV

Again, it comes down to judging ourselves so that we don’t have to be judged. But we probably won’t do this perfectly. Even Paul said:

1 Cor 4:3-5
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God.
NKJV

But later, he felt pretty confident in his work (and anyone else who lived with expectation of meeting Jesus)

2 Tim 4:6-8
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
NKJV

I think that Vio is partially right that some passages that appear to be speaking of all men (like the Matt 12 one) are speaking primarily of those who have not repented.

2 Peter 2:4-10
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8(for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)-- 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,
NKJV

All in all, I think it is the sins that we haven’t given up, or are blind to that will be judged and we’ll feel some degree of correction for (this is your “purgatory” Josh ). However, I believe it will be ever so brief…

1 Cor 15:51-52but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.NKJV

[christopher]

Josh wrote:

*interestingly, the 1 Cor. 3 passage is the one at least that I know Chris doesn't think applies to all Christians, but only to leaders/ apostles/ church planters.

Largely because of the context of the passage and I believe Paul even said so.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
NKJV

[Josh]

Chris- nice distinction between our sins we've already laid at Jesus feet and those we are blinded to. There does seem to be a paradox in Scripture between God removing our sins as far as the east is from the west and His holding us to account for all our deeds done in the flesh, and maybe you've reconciled it!

That deserves a touche!

(how do you do the slash over the e?)

And Vio, I agree with what you said in your post and I'm going to give you a touche for coining the term "pain tokens".

[freebirdro]

How about asking for forgiveness of the sins we are not aware of?

[Josh]

Touche 2