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Post by Josh on Oct 23, 2010 8:30:05 GMT -8
The guy you were referring to is Robby Dawkins and he planted a Vineyard church (Vineyard connected to Toronto) in the Chicago area. I think the focus on the barking dog thing is not important. I think people at sports games hoot and holler like animals too when they get excited about their team. I'm not saying I approve or disapprove of the barking dog because I don't know enough about it. But it seems to be what a lot of people like to talk about in order to believe any "odd" manifestation of the Spirit is actually not from God. (i.e.: laughing in the Spirit must be from satan, acting 'drunk' in Spirit is satanic, etc.). This to me is sad because this belief is stealing something from people. Again, the manifestation is not important but is powerful many times. It sounds like you're implying that Robby Dawkins can ascertain which manifestations are "demeaning" but other Christians shouldn't. Can you clarify? |
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Post by carebear on Oct 23, 2010 9:18:01 GMT -8
Isn't Jesus referred to as both a lion and a lamb in the Bible? The Bible talks about the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Is this clearly a demeaning picture of Jesus coming from the Bible because he is referred to as an animal? Maybe when people were "roaring like a lion" in Toronto, it was a prophetic picture of something. And if Jesus was referred to as a lamb in the Bible, does that mean it would be ok to "baaaaa" in the Spirit, but we just can't "baaaaark in the spirit"? lol... And if God can use a donkey to talk to people, it seems that God likes animals.
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Post by carebear on Oct 23, 2010 9:39:03 GMT -8
Yes something like that. But not that "other Christians shouldn't", rather that others sometimes can't. There is a gift of the discerning of spirits that I think Robby operates with and it is important for us to seek this gift so we won't be confused.
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Post by Josh on Oct 23, 2010 9:47:38 GMT -8
Part of the problem here is that different Christians who feel they have the gift of discernment seem to discern differently. Ultimately, some are wrong, some are right, or some are partly right and partly wrong, but the fact that seriously devoted and spirit-filled Christians have different discernment on issues like this should, imo, lead to humility and mutual respect.
Everyone needs to act truly to their understanding of what the Holy Spirit is telling them while always praying that God would reveal more of Himself and more of his discernment so they can tell the difference between their own biases and God's perspective.
The hard thing is to remain in the middle between throwing the baby out with the bathwater and letting the water get dirtier and dirtier. There's no easy solution. However, I think Paul gives us a hint when he puts love above the exercise of any gift.
So, when there's tension over some matter of conscience or expression of the Spirit, I think the best thing is to take a step back and redouble our love- for God and others.
I think we can all agree with that, and that's comforting.
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Post by carebear on Oct 23, 2010 15:45:02 GMT -8
yes love is good. And out of love, I wouldn't bring up the barking dog so much without witnessing it myself in a meeting in it's context.
My initial desire to respond a few days ago was because it seemed like you brought up the barking dog deal to encourage people to throw out manifestations from the vineyard movement, etc. as one would a baby with the bath water.
I think people would benefit from going to meetings where manifestations happen more often to get a first hand experience of it rather than assuming.
Love should guide for sure I agree.
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Post by Josh on Oct 23, 2010 16:40:33 GMT -8
My initial desire to respond a few days ago was because it seemed like you brought up the barking dog deal to encourage people to throw out manifestations from the vineyard movement, etc. as one would a baby with the bath water. I never mentioned the vineyard movement and wasn't thinking about that. I'm pretty sure there's a divided opinion on this subject even there. It's true I've never met someone who barks in the spirit, and that would be helpful in forming a judgment on the matter. But all I'm simply saying is that I have some problems with such a thing and when that pastor said what he did it resonated with me as a reason why I'm skeptical of such manifestations. |
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Lady J
Intermediate Member
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength; loving someone deeply gives you courage. ~Lao Tzu
Posts: 41
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Post by Lady J on Oct 24, 2010 8:47:15 GMT -8
I'm not saying I approve or disapprove of the barking dog because I don't know enough about it. But it seems to be what a lot of people like to talk about in order to believe any "odd" manifestation of the Spirit is actually not from God. (i.e.: laughing in the Spirit must be from satan, acting 'drunk' in Spirit is satanic, etc.). This to me is sad because this belief is stealing something from people. Just a question for you, Carebear, or anybody else: What is your litmus test to determine that things like laughing in the Spirit or acting drunk in the Spirit ARE from God? |
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Post by carebear on Oct 24, 2010 11:47:06 GMT -8
Well, I could take an orange (assuming you had never tasted one before) and tell you how good it tasted....or you could take one and taste it yourself. I would say about laughing in the Spirit and being "drunk/relaxed" in the Spirit....don't just take my word....taste it.
But don't focus on the "taste" or the laughing part, but rather focus on the nourishment you receive from God. One thing I know is that these experiences help me love God a lot more because intimacy leads to deeper connection. It's not about the manifestation; it's about the 'letting go' to His presence. The symptoms of this 'letting go' to His presence (laughter, relaxed feeling) don't matter as much as the intimacy with God one can experience through 'letting go' and learning more about the Holy Spirit.
These manifestations are palpable moves of the Holy Spirit. It is fulfilling of the verse where it says He will pour out His Spirit on all flesh. A relationship with God is not just about service to God, but about experiencing His 'liquid love'. They are some of the feelings we can feel when we experience His sweet presence.
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Post by carebear on Oct 26, 2010 13:04:21 GMT -8
I want to add a thought I had. I'm pretty sure all Christians have experienced the tangible touch of God. His sweet sweet presence. His amazing love. His care and tender voice. His burning love for His Bride. He has delivered us from death and in His presence is fullness of joy and at his right hand are pleasures forevermore. He delights in showing us His mercy and we are His delight. We have all experienced this and what the people are doing (the people we have been talking about the last few posts who seem somewhat undignified) is just 'letting go' to His touch. Yes, there is flesh still there.....but He is so sweet and His presence is what they are seeking and experiencing. They are not seeking to look worldly or provocative. They are just plainly enjoying a tangible touch of God. To experience it, one must surrender to His move. Nothing scary. It may seem scary because we associate drunkeness with losing control and doing bad things. But when we are seeking Jesus and asking for His touch, he will not "give us a snake" (or lead us into wrong behavior). It may sound too good to be true, but that's a lie. His love really does feel good. Blessings  "Come and drink from the river of my pleasure", says the Lord. |
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Post by Josh on Oct 26, 2010 20:41:05 GMT -8
Isn't Jesus referred to as both a lion and a lamb in the Bible? The Bible talks about the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Is this clearly a demeaning picture of Jesus coming from the Bible because he is referred to as an animal? Maybe when people were "roaring like a lion" in Toronto, it was a prophetic picture of something. And if Jesus was referred to as a lamb in the Bible, does that mean it would be ok to "baaaaa" in the Spirit, but we just can't "baaaaark in the spirit"? lol... And if God can use a donkey to talk to people, it seems that God likes animals. BTW, I thought this was a good comeback, carrie!  |
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