Pagan Christianity?

[Josh]

Ben, I read up a bit on the book you're reading (Pagan Christianity: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices) and it sounds interesting, yet I'm left with the question:

What's so bad about pagan roots? Is the problem that the roots are pagan or that they are contradictary to our faith?

It seems to me that the real question shouldn't be: is this tradition, practice, or belief pagan? But rather, first and formost, is it true? (even if it is pagan) And secondly, is it effective for the gospel? (even if it is pagan)

[ben]

I am still searching for a view on this issue. It just seems that we have gotten away from the early church and now follow a more tradional pattern. I know the Roman Catholics hold tradition as equal to the scripture. It seems to me the Protestants have done the same. I don't understand how a pagan belief can be true? Why mix pagan with Christian?

It all comes down to following Christ as LORD. That is my struggle, denying myself daily. I am kind of tired of being a phony and that's what draws me to Aletheia. I will continue to pray about what's in this book.

[Josh]

I don't understand how a pagan belief can be true? Why mix pagan with Christian?

Well, for instance, pagans spoke of dying and rising gods. Pagan saw deity in nature. Some pagans even spoke of the Logos, of forms and shadows, of virtues, etc..

Their views on these things were partly right and partly corrupted.

The Church didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but attempted to make footholds on common perspectives.

In addition to theological beliefs, what was inherently wrong with adopting pagan ideas about organizational structures, for instance?

I mean, just because a modern day church practice came to the church from pagan origin, doesn't mean it need be thrown out. What's more important is that we don't hold our traditions on a par with scripture, that we use the traditions that really work, and that we don't compromise our faith.

Does that make sense?

[Josh]

I perused this book for an hour the other day and for the most part was in agreement with it- especially what they had to say about clergy and church organization, etc.. They did acknowledge that just because something is pagan doesn't mean it's bad- just that we should not blindly accept it if it is not a part of New Testament revelation.

The thing I most disagreed with however was their criticism of art and beauty being incorporated into the worship/ liturgy of the church.

Their argument was that this turned the church building/ service into a "separate, special place" encouraging a dichotomy between "real life" and sacred life.

But how I see it is that whereas there is beauty and mystery all around us in the natural world, there should be beauty and mystery around us when we worship.

[ben]

I have been involved in institutional large churches for most of my Christian life and find it difficult to return to the same now that I am involved in a home type atmosphere. I like to follow more in the line of the early church although I understand most may not feel the same as I.

I like nice buildings too especially since I chose to follow Christ looking at a stained glassed window in a Roman Catholic Church in Honolulu. I know of a friend who raves about the wonders of all the amazing church buildings on his visit to Rome. I still am more comfortable in our underground basement.

But then that's me. I like the idea of being more like the early church.

[Josh]

I agree. Except if we had more control over the space, I would love to have some good art on the walls [not over the top, but judiciously placed]-- instead of blank yellow space.

[krhagan19]

Burn down the Christmas Tree, freeze the yule log (burning it would be Pagan) .