Gimme me a list of seven!

[Margot]

Hope this thread makes sense. (If it doesn't, I'm sure you'll let me know ;D) It is coming out of the Obama Wins Nobel Prize thread and it is something I have been wondering about for a while.

Back in the Bush-bashing days, most people I knew that were anti-Bush could've rattled off a long list of things they didn't like about the guy. These days what I hear more and more from Christians are moans and groans about Obama, accompanied by a lot of sighs, knowing looks and eye-rolling. (Again, I'm purely talking about my personal experience. Don't hurt me.) This always makes me feel that those of us who are Christians should know the long list of offenses against BHO. I can think of some things I don't like, but I don't claim to have any deep knowledge of the guy's soul.

So, my question is this: aside from the two most obvious (to me,) issues: abortion and his constant waffling on gay rights........can you tell me what Obama would have to do to get your support as an effective leader? Don't tell me what you love or hate about the guy, instead, give me a list...........oh, say seven things..........that he would have to do to get you to relent a little on an Anti-Obama stance? I'm just curious.
Remember: no abortion and no gay rights. Most of us have somewhat of a consensus on those, and I want to leave those spaces open for other issues ;D

[sarah]

I wouldn't define myself as AO. If I had it to do over again, I would still vote for him. I just am bothered by his celebrity like status and the Nobel Prize seems premature to me.

As I stated in earlier posts, I think that it will be many years before we can determine the effectivness and effect of his term in office. Some of our most popular presidents have been determined in retrospect to be the least effective, while some of the least popular ones have made tremendous positive changes only seen a generation or two down the line.

[Josh]

I'm really not particularly anti-Obama. I'm just anti-politician ;D

[Margot]

Is that the sound of backpedaling I hear?

[Josh]

Did I ever seem particularly anti-Obama?

You're not confusing me with Robin are you? ;D

[robin]

I'm not Anti-Obama. I'm Anti-the things he stands for. I do however, feel as if he has very few redeeming qualities as a leader.

In an attempt to answer your question Margot, I would have to say that Obama would have to

1. Prove that he can be honest with the American People. Obama embodies everything that is wrong with politics, including the willingness to say anything to get elected. When he promised Change he said that he would not appoint lobbyist serve in his administration. I know that are more than five who have served him in cabinet positions, and many more who serve his administration who are not cabinet level. He promised not to sign any legislation that is riddled with earmarks. Take a look at the Stimulus Bill and the Appropriations Bill and you will see that he didn't bother to veto (via line item veto) any pork barrel spending, otherwise known as earmarks. He promised that his decisions on Afghanistan would be driven by the advice from his Generals on the ground. Now our soldiers are sitting and waiting for the requested bump in troop levels while he twiddles his thumbs and considers the political impact of his decision. Also lets not forget his promise to post all legislation on line for the public the read for 72 hour prior to voting. this has not been done on any bill yet to my knowledge.

I could go on but I think I made my point.

2.He would need to reverse course on the economy, and stop in his attempt a at government take over of private businesses and industries. (GM, Chrysler, AIG, and our insurance industry)

3. Stop being so weak and pathetic on foreign policy issues. Our enemies are laughing at his weakness, and fear nothing about him (Russia, Iran, and N. Korea). He gives away everything (missile defense) and gets nothing in return. What is wrong with this Guy?!

4. Stop being so worried about what European citizens think of him and put the security of th US and our allies first. France's Nicholas Sarkozy was beside himself as he watched Obama's knees go weak in front of Iran last month. Sarkozy pleaded and begged Obama to take advantage of his opportunity during the UN General conference to confront Iran on the recently discovered secret Nuclear Facility when he (Obama) was chairing the Security Counsel meeting. Instead, he decided to shelve this vital and concerning issue in favor of discussing his pipe dream of world wide nuclear disarmament.

5. Stop living in fantasy land. No world leader with his power should be concerning themselves with fantasies of ridding the world of nuclear weapons when countries like Iran and N. Korea are on the brink of obtaining them. The Utopian pipe dreams of Obama may be fine and well for a Community Organizer, or even a Senator, but not the President of the US, and certainly not during a time like this. We should be showing strength and putting fear into our enemies.

6. Stop blaming Bush. He asked for the job, he should do it and stop whining. Have you ever heard anyone with so much power blame others for their failures?

7. He would need to adopt the thinking and policies of men like Ronald Regan, and Barry Goldwater. I recommend listening to to their addresses to the RNC. You will hear a distinct difference.

To sum it up. Obama doesn't have it in him to lead our country. He is too weak, egotistical, has a vision for America that is dangerous, and is unwilling to confront evil in our time. Americans are now waking up to the fact that we elected to wrong man as made evident by his poll numbers.

This was written in haste, please excuse any grammatical errors.

Robin

[ben]

I am more conservative than liberal but I am not a republican; more an independant. I did not vote for Obama because of his abortion stance but since that is not part of this thread here are my seven points.

1. Why is he taking so long to make a decision in sending more troops to Afghanistan? He should make a decision that either backs up his commander in the field or pull the troops out. I don't like when politicians try to run wars.

2. I do not understand how spending big chunks of money helps the economy to get better. If I spent more money than I have, I'd go broke.

3. Why is the stimulus not helping small business since it is 70% of the economy? When small business succeeds, more jobs opportunities occur. As I understand it, only a small portion of the stimulus went to small business.

4. America has the second largest corporate tax rate next to Japan. Why not cut the corporate tax rate? I believe that corporations just pass the cost down to the consumers.

5. In 2003 and 2007, President Obama said he was for the single payer health system like Canada's. Why not just say so instead of claiming that he is not for a government take over of the health system.

6. I remember Obama saying he was for transparency and that America would know the details of important legislation even saying that the citizens would be able to see what's in the bill. Is that what is happening today? The first big bill involving energy was shoved down our throats.

7. Why does he appoint radical people like Van Jones into government positions? Could it be that he has radical ideals himself?

[Margot]

Excellent, well-thought out lists, both of you!!! You've given me a lot to think about

[robin]

Hi Margot,
I was wondering what a comparative list would look like if you gave us your top 7 things that Bush could have done to earn your support. Do you care to share?

[Margot]

Hmmm, great question! I've kind of put the Bush II regime out of my mind, but l'll try to come up with a couple. Please keep in mind that they are not going to be nearly as in-depth as yours because: 1. I'm in a hurry 2. I don't think the same way you do, and tend to get a lot more offended by a person's overall attitude than which bills they voted for....but here we go:
1. Being bred and buttered in the state of California, it's kind of hard to get behind someone who----I can barely get it out---actually considers it an option to drill off the coastline. If he would've considered/put more emphasis on other auto fuels beside gasoline, I definitely would have given him a second look. As it was, all I could think about was the Exxon Valdez and my entire childhood looking out at the oil rigs off the Santa Barbara coast. Horrors!
2. I would have listened to him a lot more if he (and his Dad, as a matter of fact,) would just STOP WHINING. When I hear other presidents, (dem and rep) I feel like I am being spoken to as an adult. Almost every time I heard Bush (and Dad-Bush) talking to the people, I felt I was being chastized by a nagging parent. Hey, if I wanted that, I never would've left home!! Seriously, the scolding got really, really old. I wanted to hear him speaking to me as an adult peer not talking down to me as a misbehaving child.
3. WARNING! I AM VIOLATING MY OWN RULE ABOUT ABORTION COMMENTS!
He was always viewed as the anti-abortion candidate. However, he sure made a big deal of announcing it when he gave money to stem-cell research. When I heard Laura using that fact to defend herself to pro-abortion critics on morning t.v., I lost a lot of respect for both of them. If you don't support abortion, (I don't, by the way,) then say so and stick to it. You can't have it both ways.
4. He needed to get in touch with people who live below the poverty line.
If I would have seen him siding with issues that advocated compassion for Americans living in poverty, I think I could have supported him more. As it was, he always seemed so surprised when the media questioned him about those without homes, jobs and health insurance. ---The final straw for me was when a reporter quoted the unemployment rate and his comment was "oh, wow, has it gotten up that high?" Ouch!
5. If he would've dropped the "curtain of silence" that he put up around the White House, it would've helped. I never really got behind the war in Iraq, but when he clamped down on all news about the war, that pretty much cinched it for me. Like a lot of the rest of the country, I was still wondering what happened to searching for Bin Laden.
6. It made it really hard for me to support him when we slipped deeper and deeper into a recession and he kept coming before us saying: "Recession? What Recession? This isn't a Recession!" If he would have manned up to what was happening, I think a lot of people would have stuck by him in the last part of his presidency, instead of jumping ship like they did--me included.
7. This is not a point, as much as a side comment---I have always maintained that Bush was a nice guy. Seemed friendly, pleasant, nice. Probably would've made a fantastic neighbor--(probably throws GREAT bbq's!) But, he always seemed like such a fish out of water with other world leaders. I was always on pins and needles about what goofy thing he would do to embarass himself (or us.) All the mispronounciations and the misinformation and the "gee whillikers", folksy thing just wasn't working for me. I felt I needed someone better educated and more sophisticated about the world as a whole--I know a lot of nice, average people that shouldn't necessarily be president.

If I offended anyone, I am sorry, but those are my thoughts .

[robin]

No offense taken. Thanks for your thoughts.

[ryan]

Going along with Josh's "anti-politician" quip: I think that many of the items listed in Margot's post can be applied to the current President. He has been less than transparent, I have felt as though I am being lectured to by him, he has tried to underplay the recession, he looks a little uncomfortable around other world leaders, and has an energy policy that gives me great pause.

I agree (or at least understand) many of the points raised by Margot. I voted for Bush twice, but many of his decisions (particularly those made during his second term) have not been ones that I can get on board with.

[robin]

Ryan,
I agree with everything you said. I didn't want to respond to Margot's post because I get a little tired of pointing out things I dislike about others, ever Obama believe it or not. I feel like I get too negative sometimes although At time I just cant resist.

[krhagan19]

Please Don't kill me! I am royally angry at President Obama. I believe he is aproximately a trillion times worse that George W. Bush. I will not vote him again and my level fo dissapointment with him is staggering. Bush was basically honest. He told us what he wanted pre election and he basically stood by his plan, misguided as it may be. Obama is a vile liar. He promised us Universal Healthcare. How does he go about getting it. By giving up everything "UNIVERSAL" about it before the negotiations begin. Any moron knows that when your selling something, you set the price high and then work it down so you can still get a decent deal. This God forsaken imbucile, took all of the teeth out of healthcare reform before he even sent it to the House. It would be like a man who is trying to sell a Toyota Camry that is worth 10K and instead of starting the bidding at 12K his opening position was 5K and he was talked down to 2K. Obama may be a slick talker but he is the least effective legislative president (LBJ was the most effective in recent history) since Carter. He is also a man without the slightest bit of integrity. He promised to abolish Don't ask, Don't Tell. Numerous Constitutional Scholars agree that as Commander in Chief during a war time he could end this policy with a single executive order. Yet the coward refuses to do it. I am basically a liberal, but I feel that we elected a man who is so stunningly incompetent that his failed administration will nearly cement 8 more years of Republican Dominance across the board! I also feel that he has his priorities totally out of wack. He has stated that to get millions of Americans, including millions of Children heatlhcare, a thing that is very good, and promotes life, has to be budget neutral. Yet our misadventures overseas, that promote death, he is willing to spend hundreds of billions of borrowed dollars. As a Christian I will pray for him. As a citizen, I say "Damn that man!"

[marcus]

1) Like every politician, he wants political power and believes there is power in politics.
2) He stood by his pastor, and then didn't, and then did.
3) He called Kanye West a jackass.
4) He uses God as all politicians use God.
5) He belongs to a political party.
6) He made campaign promises that he knew he couldn't keep, but did it anyway.
7) Wait, Kanye West is a jackass. I still need two more.
8) He believes in a morality that justifies murder.
9) He made a career in politics.

[Margot]

Although 1, 5 and 9 might be combo comments....still, overall, a good list I had forgotten all about 2.

[rbbailey]

1. Czars. Started by Bush, perfected by Obama. There is no Constitutional provision for thee Czars. There is no Constitutional oversight for these Czars. This opens them up to: making their own rules, answering to no one but Obama.

2. Bailouts. Yes, started by Bush, perfected by Obama. Although it has long been done, again, there is no provision in the Constitution for giving tax-payer money to individuals, or to a group of individuals. This is something almost everyone looks the other way on when it comes to a natural disaster like Katrina, but we should be concerned about the government hand-outs -- and for more than just the fact that it is expensive.

3. Bailouts turning the government in a position of ownership of what were private companies. GM is the prime example, and I predict it will not be the last. It's one thing to give our money away. It's one thing to give a lot of it away. But it is a specific agenda to actually become a controlling partner in a company -- it's called socialism.

4. I don't completely agree with Obama's actions in Afghanistan.

5. I completely disagree with his idea that the Constitution, in not saying something, implies the ability for the Federal Government to fill that void with powers and control not specifically stated.

6. I do not agree with any form of government controlled medicine. The very idea of it flies in the face of the right to privacy and any number of other rights.

7. And on a more personal note: I do not think he is an eloquent speaker at all. I don't think he is nearly as brilliant as people make him out to be. I don't like the fact that he went to that church for 20 years, but declares that the does not agree with the pastor, and simply quit when he realized that it would not be politically expedient. I think he is in over his head. I think he has a closer tie with people like Bill Ayers than he lets on. In general, I believe him to be an empty suit. I think he is all smoke and mirrors.

8. Oh, and if he signs this GW treaty in Europe this week, he will have broken Constitutional law very directly.... any bets on if he signs it or not?