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Post by Josh on Sept 10, 2009 20:51:52 GMT -8
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Third in my little series on how Christianity meets our deepest needs, desires, and satisfies our thirst for meaning (Why Believe?) is the subject of "The Enemy". By that I mean that I think it is a deeply human experience to recognize that life is a struggle, life is warfare even, and that it is a struggle against an enemy (or rather, enemies). I think the "enemy" is a host of things- from the dark side of our own natures, to enemies in the physical and spiritual realms . I realize that my claim that it is a basic human need/ desire to understand that we are in a battle is not going to go unchallenged. I'd like to defend it, though, so any objections are welcome. Do you see life as a battle?* Do you think everyone should recognize that life is a war against an enemy? I do. *And by the way, I don't mean all of life, just some important aspects. |
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Post by Josh on Sept 14, 2009 20:03:22 GMT -8
Any thoughts on this? This could be helpful in preparing the Joshua study.
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Post by krhagan19 on Dec 15, 2009 20:21:39 GMT -8
I like it, lets say that Christianity is part of our Culture and is nominally Good. Look at Pan Islamic countries, they are overwhelmingly Muslim, you get your religion the same way you get your airlines, you are visited upon by the Sins of your Father or Mother.
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Post by Josh on Jan 2, 2010 21:13:40 GMT -8
A line from a Derek Webb song which made me think of this thread:
but nothing unifies like a common enemy
and we’ve got one, sure as hell
but he may be living in your house
he may be raising up your kids
he may be sleeping with your wife
oh no, he may not look like you think
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Post by carebear on Jan 3, 2010 0:05:01 GMT -8
This made me think of something I heard Graham Cooke say, "There's a place in the Spirit set aside for us where we can make the enemy confused. We can weary him by our rest (haha!). We can discourage him by our faith. We can demoralize him by our joy. We can depress him by our endurance. And we can despirit him by our favor." When he said this he referenced a book he's written with more explanation on his ideas.....i think it is titled "The way of the warrior"....maybe can be found at www.brilliantbookhouse.com Good words I think! |
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Post by Josh on Jan 4, 2010 17:43:45 GMT -8
I'd like to think that's true- hopefully it is!
It does seem to be a general truth that evil cannot remain unaffected by good- and in the end cannot withstand the thoroughness of the good.
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Post by moritz on Jan 8, 2010 15:12:33 GMT -8
By that I mean that I think it is a deeply human experience to recognize that life is a struggle, life is warfare even, and that it is a struggle against an enemy (or rather, enemies). It's hard for me to relate to your assumption. Had you said that everybody is in need of challenges, I would have probably agreed. But to be fundamentally in need of an enemy sounds a bit pathological to me. |
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Post by Josh on Jan 9, 2010 12:06:19 GMT -8
I'm not saying that humans as originally created have a fundamental need for warfare. It is the circumstances we find ourselves in that cry for warfare, and to deny it is to deny an aspect of our humanity, which is a need to see truth and righteousness vindicated.
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Post by moritz on Jan 14, 2010 3:28:08 GMT -8
I'm not saying that humans as originally created have a fundamental need for warfare. It is the circumstances we find ourselves in that cry for warfare, and to deny it is to deny an aspect of our humanity, which is a need to see truth and righteousness vindicated. I don't understand what you're saying. All I know is that I don't have an enemy (that I should know of) and I don't need an enemy. And I don't need warfare either for that matter. Neither do I believe that people generally need it, but what do I know? It's good to know that you need it, though. I much rather believe, that people fundamentally desire to be free of pain and stress. Having an enemy seems diametrically opposed to that desire. |
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Post by Josh on Jan 14, 2010 18:51:13 GMT -8
Evil is an enemy we all have to fight... in ourselves and in the world. It seems to me self-evident that we must war against it. And most cutural stories would agree.
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Post by moritz on Jan 15, 2010 0:56:29 GMT -8
Evil is an enemy we all have to fight... in ourselves and in the world. It seems to me self-evident that we must war against it. And most cutural stories would agree. I think this entire topic is too superficial. If "the enemy" can be everything from one's weaker self to the devil in person, and "warfare" is everything from inner struggles to literal physical battle, then everybody is likely to find something he could identify as an "enemy" (perhaps my sweet tooth?) and "warfare" (getting up early in the morning?). I think "enemy" and "warfare" are powerful terms that get washed out if used in such an deflationary manner. You originally asked: "Do you see life as a battle?" My answer is no. And you further asked: "Do you think everyone should recognize that life is a war against an enemy?" Again, my answer is no. |
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Post by Josh on Jan 15, 2010 12:40:10 GMT -8
It's not superficial in the least. The point is that our choices matter. Try telling someone who is overweight that their struggle to eat right is not a warring matter. Do you really believe that it is not an act of battle for a depressed person to get up in the morning?
The problem is that you're devaluing the morality of choices we make ever day. The ancients knew that the attainment of virtue required Herculean feats. It seems like you're downplaying the struggle we all face to do what is right.
I think all cultures have felt this. That's why this themes shows up in stories. Do you really think all the old myths are simply about fighting literal monsters? No, they're about the spiritual battle we all face (don't get hung up on the word spiritual- it could simply mean psyche to make the point)
Spiritual warfare is more real and vivid than physical warfare. Physical warfare is seldom noble, but spiritual warfare is always, properly understood.
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