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Post by BA on Jun 30, 2009 9:21:18 GMT -8
Was the dinousar a passenger on the ark?
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Post by Josh on Jun 30, 2009 11:12:23 GMT -8
Well, it depends on what perspective you're coming from.
My short answer would be "no", but others here might say "yes".
It's all wrapped up with the debate about how old the earth is, how extensive the flood was, etc...
When I get some more time, I'll be back with a fuller analysis from my perspective and others can jump in with theirs.
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Post by Alex on Jun 30, 2009 11:55:49 GMT -8
They didn't make the cut. If they had they'd be here, wouldn't they?
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Post by robin on Jun 30, 2009 19:12:35 GMT -8
They didn't make the cut. If they had they'd be here, wouldn't they? Not necessarily. Animals go extinct all the time for different reasons. From my young earth prospective, I believe that the environment was much different after the flood, and was not ideal for many of the dinosaurs to continue to thrive. Also, one must consider the possibility that some were hunted and killed until none remained. I'm sure that such creatures were a threat to both livestock and populations, and therefore would give people good reason to hunt these animals. I believe that we have reference to dinsaurs in the book of Job. The book refers to two animals that are thought, by many, to be dinosaurs. Job 40:15-2415 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares. Doesn't sound like any animal that I have seen (besides those in museums). Job 41:1-34 1 "Can you draw out Leviathan with a hook, or snare his tongue with a line which you lower? 2 Can you put a reed through his nose, Or pierce his jaw with a hook? 3 Will he make many supplications to you? Will he speak softly to you? 4 Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him as a servant forever? 5 Will you play with him as with a bird, Or will you leash him for your maidens? 6 Will your companions make a banquet of him? Will they apportion him among the merchants? 7 Can you fill his skin with harpoons, or his head with fishing spears? 8 Lay your hand on him; Remember the battle-- Never do it again! 9 Indeed, any hope of overcoming him is false; Shall one not be overwhelmed at the sight of him? 10 No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up. Who then is able to stand against Me?
11 Who has preceded Me, that I should pay him? Everything under heaven is Mine. 12 "I will not conceal his limbs, His mighty power, or his graceful proportions. 13 Who can remove his outer coat? Who can approach him with a double bridle? 14 Who can open the doors of his face, With his terrible teeth all around? 15 His rows of scales are his pride, Shut up tightly as with a seal; 16 One is so near another That no air can come between them; 17 They are joined one to another, They stick together and cannot be parted. 18 His sneezings flash forth light, And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. 19 Out of his mouth go burning lights; Sparks of fire shoot out. 20 Smoke goes out of his nostrils, As from a boiling pot and burning rushes. 21 His breath kindles coals, And a flame goes out of his mouth. 22 Strength dwells in his neck, And sorrow dances before him. 23 The folds of his flesh are joined together; They are firm on him and cannot be moved. 24 His heart is as hard as stone, Even as hard as the lower millstone. 25 When he raises himself up, the mighty are afraid; Because of his crashings they are beside themselves. 26 Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail; Nor does spear, dart, or javelin. 27 He regards iron as straw, And bronze as rotten wood. 28 The arrow cannot make him flee; Slingstones become like stubble to him. 29 Darts are regarded as straw; He laughs at the threat of javelins. 30 His undersides are like sharp potsherds; He spreads pointed marks in the mire. 31 He makes the deep boil like a pot; He makes the sea like a pot of ointment. 32 He leaves a shining wake behind him; One would think the deep had white hair. 33 On earth there is nothing like him, Which is made without fear. 34 He beholds every high thing; He is king over all the children of pride." Are there any fire breathing animals that remain today? If we were to see this creature today it would be called a dragon. Yes, thats right, I believe that dragons once lived, but it is unlikely that they would have been on the Ark because they could survive in water. |
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Post by yeshuafreak on Jul 1, 2009 9:51:45 GMT -8
i believe in the gap theory which states that the dinosaurs were present right before the luciferic flood of gen 1:2. many disagree with me but it is one of the best theories presented thus far aparrt from Scott M Huse's young earth analyisis.
shalom- john
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Post by Josh on Jul 1, 2009 12:03:21 GMT -8
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Post by Josh on Jul 1, 2009 12:16:02 GMT -8
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Post by robin on Jul 1, 2009 13:07:35 GMT -8
The fact is, there are very few human fossils at all (comparatively). Humans, unlike those dinosaurs that we find fossilized, would be able to cling to floating objects and survive for a period of time before succumbing to death, therefore making it unlikely that fossilization* would have occurred on a wide scale like it did with other species. Based on your theory we should feel confident that we have and exhaustive record of every living creature throughout all the ages, because there would be ample evidence in the fossil record. Therefore it would be fair to say that no animals except those found in the fossil record lived. Is that your position? Also, you should not so quickly sidestep the evidence in Job that opens the door for humans and dinosaurs to live together. At a minimum you should be willing to offer a plausible explanation as to what the Lord was describing. For me I believe that Leviathan was a sea dwelling serpent that today we would call a Dragon, and Behemoth fits very well with the physical attributes of a Brachiosaurus. So far the explanations that I have heard from Old earth Christians, they are laughable at best (Elephant, or hippopotamus).  *In the best conditions, fossilization will occur if an animal or plant dies and is quickly covered over with moist sediment. This prevents the animal or plant from being eaten by other organisms or from undergoing natural decay through exposure to oxygen and bacteria. Source - Dictionary.com |
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Post by yeshuafreak on Jul 2, 2009 12:58:57 GMT -8
i think you are refferrging to me. thank you. PS- my name is John, lol. shalom- john |
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Post by Josh on Jul 3, 2009 14:11:01 GMT -8
LOL. You've been absent too long and I've been conversing more with Matty.
Sorry, john.
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Post by Josh on Jul 4, 2009 6:21:19 GMT -8
Why don't we find rabbit fossils with dinosaurs? Elephant fossils with dinosaurs? The list goes on and on.... There is a very orderly and uniform sequence of animal types in the fossil record that can't be explained by merely weight or "ability to cling".
As the the beasts described in Job, have you seen images of the animals living even in the later Cenozoic period (concurrent with the advent of man)? There were some crazy giant mammals living then (saber tooth tigers, mastodons, giant rhinos, giant sloths, etc..). It could be describing massive, extinct animals without necessarily referring to dinosaurs which lived so much longer before humans.
Who knows? Maybe there was something like a dragon. But that doesn't mean it was a dinosaur or that this is somehow proof that dinosaurs and humans were coexistent.
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Post by robin on Jul 4, 2009 7:30:00 GMT -8
Much of your argument here would rely on the theory that we have a dependable geological column, in which fossils are stacked in an orderly fashion on top of each other representing million of years of evolution and different time periods. The problem you have is that this does not actually exist. Please take the time to read this article to get a better understanding of what I'm trying to say. www.trueorigin.org/geocolumn.aspThe problem here is that we will continue to talk past each other simply for the fact that you are convinced that fossils have been formed over millions of years and I believe that the fossils were created as a result of one mega disaster (Noah's flood). Do you believe that we have a fossil record for these animals described in Job. If so which one's? Those mentioned above don't fit the descriptions. The problem I see is that old earth creationist continue to fail at producing a viable creature that would fit both their theory, and the description in the book of Job, meanwhile the continue to refuse the possibility that the book of Job does describe a dinosaur. The fact is, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck, well, it's probably a duck. One must always leave open the possibility that they could be wrong and look at presented evidence and then let that evidence speak for itself, rather than interpreting evidence based on our pre-conceived notions. |
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Post by Margot on Jul 4, 2009 9:23:43 GMT -8
Robin said: "Are there any fire breathing animals that remain today? If we were to see this creature today it would be called a dragon. Yes, thats right, I believe that dragons once lived..." This is true. I can offer at least two of my female high school teachers as proof positive of this fact. 
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Post by christopher on Jul 6, 2009 9:11:25 GMT -8
Oh they're there. You just need to comb through the fossils of dinosaur poo to find them.  |
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matty
Advanced Member
Posts: 103
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Post by matty on Jul 6, 2009 11:32:02 GMT -8
am i right in thinking that dinosaurs were extinct before man roamed the earth. So come from totally literal perspective. Dinosaur were extinct when the flood happened.
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Post by robin on Jul 8, 2009 8:01:22 GMT -8
In my opinion, no.
I'm not sure what you mean by a literal perspective. I take the creation account in genesis literally, and I see no reason to believe that dinosaurs were extinct prior to the flood. What is it that you take literally, science books?
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Post by Josh on Jul 8, 2009 12:25:05 GMT -8
Matty, yes, I believe the preponderance of the evidence leads us to the conclusion that dinosaurs were extinct before the flood.
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