Parliament(uk)

[matty]

On the face of it there is no reason to disagree with a parliament set up. Elected people to represent the electors, but there is currently no way to vote to kick your MP out and the other part of parliament(the lords) is completely unelected. My idea for a reformation of parliament who'd be:

The right to de-elect an MP
Meaning that if 50% of the voters in a constuency do not want to have the MP that is voted the election is re-run. But there must be grounds for the re-run. Say 5,000 people in one constuiency could vote and the elected member gets most of the votes. But a few years later in the middle of parliamentry term 2,500+ voters in his/her constituency agree that the MP is no longer suitable for the post an election would be run.
75% elected house of Lords
Lords is completely unelected i would make it so that most people in there are elected and that non-elected members are former speakers or have been given the post because they are bishops. These are to types of Lord that shouldn't be de-elected however the rest should.
A bigger say for Christianity
The church of England is currently struggling to fund itself, why can't the organisation be governmentally bailed out like banks. Or at least given some government funding. Lets face it the organisation sees most people at birth, marriage and death. And before bias allegations come i would happily do the same for Muslims and other religous groups.
More time in parliament
The 80 day recess isn't an 80 day holiday i know but it isn't far off it. The recess should be cut to three 20 day stints out of parliament, and at least 15 of each of those stinted days should be spent doing constituency work, except in the middle 20 day recess where it would be cut to 10 for a summer holiday to be able to fit in.
Expenses system
The problem isn't the rules its the people trying very badly to follow them, so i would introduce a legally binding code of conduct to parliament that would result in an 8 year legal imprisonment. The proposals would be as follows:
1. You may only claim for transport and second home allowance and any other stuff must be passed under a panel of adjudicators who would pass whether it is wholy and exclusively to do with their job
2. Any interests for money outside of parliament who'd have to be declared.
3. Every single expense claimed by every single MP would have to be declared uncensored on the parliamentarian website. And a sugery a month must be held by each MP in their constituency.

So that would be my outlined idea for a reform of parliament

[Josh]

The church of England is currently struggling to fund itself, why can't the organisation be governmentally bailed out like banks. Or at least given some government funding. Lets face it the organisation sees most people at birth, marriage and death. And before bias allegations come i would happily do the same for Muslims and other religous groups.

Sounds kinda scary to me. I hope Europe hasn't forgotten the lesson of the separation of church and state.

If the COE is struggling to fund itself, maybe the solution is to rededicate* itself to wholeheartedly living out the gospel rather than appealing to the state for a bailout.

*lest you see this as a slam, I'd give the same advice to any church at any time anywhere.

[matty]

This was my own ideas i never said the church would appeal to the state for a bailout. Of course they wouldn't, its not right. It was just an idea i was tossing about.

[Josh]

OK. But what do you think of the issues I raised?

[matty]

Well it is about living out of the gospel, but its got to pay it vicars and things like that, and before you suggest a paycut for vicars i'll remind you that the salary is marginally above the free school meals thresh hold. I think the church will manage to suffer recession but we are going to see many churches shutting.

[Josh]

Okay, I'm going to tread softly here, seeing as how your livelihood is tied up into this issue.

Let me preface this by saying that I don't think there is anything wrong with pastors/vicars being paid for their services. Even Scripture says this.

However, I think the Church works best when it avoids paying people as much as possible. There are so many strings attached to employment in a church setting it makes my head spin:

The unrealistic expectations, possibility of resentment, shoving off of responsibilities on the "paid staff", etc...

I think this is why Paul himself often chose not to be renumerated for his "services".

So, you've got to understand that from my perspective, there are lot more benefits to a lay leader system than a paid clergy system.

That said, the COE is the way it is, and you're living in that reality. It's really hard to be facing those economical pressures.

[matty]

Josh are you paid for your services, as most denominations other here pay there leaders/clergy or whatever you want to call them. Even some of the most evangelical, but yes there is the few who do it as a out of work commitment.
Thats great for people who can work their own life around this kind of system but most jobs just don't have the flexibility and less you manage it so that you only do things church-related on a Sunday, which isn't how its meant to be.
And in response to your responsibilities thing, yes shoving things off does happen, my mams a curate and the vicar is quite good at sending the hard stuff my mams way and works the rota nicely in her own favour so the responsibilities thing is major.
But from my perspective because of the amount of training, time and graft that being a vicar consumes it is simply not going to work to do it for free. Being a part-time vicar doesn't work in our family situation.

[Josh]

Very understandable in your situation.

I am a high school teacher by day and a dad, husband, and pastor 24/7. I don't get paid for pastoring.

"church" responsibilities take up a lot of time for me, but the folks in our church community do a really great job of sharing the load- which I love.

[matty]

Yes, people do share the responsibilities but there is a fair number of people who think the fact we have an incumbent, curate and two churchwardens as that they should do all the work. I some times think a few people are a bit unfair towards church wardens as they are unpaid but do a lot more work than they should.
Anyway i now know your views on paid clergy and ours collide so as long as we can discuss these things without balling at eachother then thats fine.
And i can see the natural teacher-pastor kind of journey/relation. Teaching kids(or brats) my age to teaching the word of the lord.
What subject do you teach?

[apollos]

Jun 27, 2009 19:16:40 GMT -8 Josh said:

Sounds kinda scary to me. I hope Europe hasn't forgotten the lesson of the separation of church and state.

If the COE is struggling to fund itself, maybe the solution is to rededicate* itself to wholeheartedly living out the gospel rather than appealing to the state for a bailout.

*lest you see this as a slam, I'd give the same advice to any church at any time anywhere.

The problem is, the CoE is a cultural institution. If the government doesn't back it up, it'll disappear. At the very least the government needs to take over the maintenance of the buildings, as they are part of the historical inheritance of the country.

[matty]

Hi Apollos you are presenting a view that the CoE should be governmentally bailed, i can see the logic. If you have acess to figures about planned closures it makes sense but many people would fight against a bail of the CoE because of the distancing between it and community now apparents

[Josh]

OK, Matty. Almost totally unrelated, but, a question for you: why are Two Pence peices so incredibly large?

[matty]

Thats one of those questions only the person who made the first money knows, maybe the guy(or girl for pc people) who invented coins was size blind. Did you know that the actual order of coin size starts with 5p.

[krhagan19]

Perhaps the head of the Church of England, your unelected head of State her gracious Majesty Queen Elizabeth the second could sell off one of her dozens of estates worth hundreds of millions of pounds and donate it to the Body of which she is the head?