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Post by moritz on Jan 5, 2009 16:47:37 GMT -8
Hey guys, I've read the other day that Obama picked a rather disputed conservative pastor for his inauguration. Many of Obamas liberal followers, especially homosexuals and people of non Christian faith are disappointed to the extent of indignation. I'm reading Obama's "The Audacity of Hope" right now and I have an idea why he picked Warren. But I'd like to know what you think of the pick. Is Warren a decent representative of Christian religion? Do you think he is brave for being uncompromising about the truths of Christianty or would you have preferred a more moderate pick? I've read some of his statements and realized that his opinions differ with a couple of views I've read on this board. So what have you got to say? Any thoughts??
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Post by meghan on Jan 5, 2009 18:25:22 GMT -8
I don't know much about Rick Warren. I only got through half of his best seller.
I DO know that the man walks the walk. He's paid back his church his past salaries, and tithes 90%, along with spending a lot of time serving in Africa and urging others to aid in humanitarian efforts.
So, sure. Whatever. It's just his inauguration. What's he going to do - say one prayer?
Although I don't know that I really agree with the whole prayer/state thing (and the obvious endorsements that come along with standing beside a politician), Warren is an okay choice.
What are his statements you think people would disagree with?
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Post by christopher on Jan 5, 2009 18:42:23 GMT -8
I don't know much about Rick Warren either, but I also think he's as good a pick as any. He's pretty mainstream as far as I can tell. I'm sure I disagree with him on many points (there's not many I don't disagree with on something), although I couldn't tell you what those points may be.
I'm not sure why people would get indignant about the selection. It's not as if Obama belongs to the liberals. Last time I checked the president is everyone's president and he's entitled to personal liberties that deviate from the party line from time to time. It's not as if he's saying he agrees with Warren on everything he believes.
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Post by Josh on Jan 5, 2009 20:19:34 GMT -8
I also don't know a ton about Warren, but what I do know I respect. I like that he's a Christian leader in dealing with international humanitarian needs. I like that he's been willing to work with and associate himself with people from diverse political backgrounds. I like that he can take a stand on key issues of Christian conscience and yet not purposefully polarize people. Along with Meghan I'm curious what ideas you think we might differ with him on? (other than his eccliosiology- but I don't hold it too much against him that he's a mega-church pastor )
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Post by Josh on Jan 5, 2009 20:48:39 GMT -8
Mo, I hope you don't mind but I'm going to move this to a new sub-folder I created for discussion of various Christian personalities.
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Post by moritz on Jan 6, 2009 14:38:37 GMT -8
Here's a bit of information on the outrage:
And here is the future presidents opinion:
Thanks for all the opinions. I barely know anything about Warren either. I've read an article that portrayed him as some sort of fanatic who would put all kinds of people in hell. A moment was quoted, when he answered a jewish women who asked him if she would burn in hell after death according to his belief with a plain "yes". I remember having read several different opinions about hell and the afterlife on this board. So I thought there might be some disagreement on this particular issue for example. Anyway, I watched a couple of things Warren said on youtube and I get the impression that all the indignation might be slightly exagerated (although I can understand that gay people are outraged). The important thing here is something that Chris said: the president doesn't belong to liberals, or gays, or conservatives. Obama (from what I can tell) wants to bring all parts of the society to the table and be the president of all. And thats a good thing.
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Post by christopher on Jan 6, 2009 22:05:03 GMT -8
I've not followed this supposed Obama "dilemma" at all. But it seems to me (just from the two clips you posted) that the people who are outraged are making this a divisive gay/lesbian issue. I don't see Obama or Warren bringing it up at all in this context except to answer the people throwing temper tantrums.*
I could just as well throw a tantrum about Warren's view mega-churchiness and call Obama and say it's a "slap in the face" to us little guys.
*BTW, I generally find that the majority of the time this controversy comes up it's because pastors and other Christian politicians are asked about it point blank by some journalist or shock jock that wants to stir the pot. It has truly become a litmus test for public figures, no doubt about it.
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Post by michelle on Jan 8, 2009 13:21:51 GMT -8
The biggest reasons that the gay/lesbian community is so outraged by the choice is because Rick Warren was very outspoken about his support of proposition 8, which was the measure that passed in California banning homosexual marriage.
I also agree with Chris that our president is everybody's president. Nobody is going to agree with everything someone else believes. Why would it be any different with a president? I supported him, but don't agree with everything he believes. Just like I support Josh and don't believe everything the same way he does (the cat's out of the bag, Josh). I think the reason that people are so upset about it is that they want Obama to be a progressive politician that makes every move to please the far left. Like Chris also said, that's not what he wants to do (as far was we can tell). And like Abe Lincoln* said, "You can please some people all the time and all people some of the time, but you can't please all people all of the time."
I also sort of agree with Meghan. I don't think the prayer at the inauguration should be a mandatory thing if a President doesn't want it, but I think if a prez wants it, he or she should have it. It's sort of like having a birthday party. You should get to invite whoever you want and you should get to play whatever games you want. Sure you have the whole swearing in part, but the rest should be up to the honored guest.
*BTW, I'm so tired of the Abe Lincoln/Barack Obama parallels being drawn. WE GET IT ALREADY.
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Post by Josh on Feb 13, 2009 18:00:06 GMT -8
"In honoring Mr. Warren, the President-elect confers legitimacy on attitudes that are deeply contrary to the all-inclusive love of God. He is courting the powerful at the expense of the marginalized, and in doing so, he stands the gospel on its head"John Chane, Episcopal Bishop of Washington, protesting Obama's invitation of Rick Warren to deliver his inaugural invocation due to his views on homosexuality. I guess Paul and other Bible writers stand the "gospel on its head" too by teaching moral absolutes. Wait a minute, weren't they the ones that told us about the gospel in the first place? This is so ridiculous. Warren is not a hate-monger in the least.
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Post by moritz on Feb 14, 2009 2:52:17 GMT -8
I guess Paul and other Bible writers stand the "gospel on its head" too by teaching moral absolutes. I don't understand this sentence. Not that I disagree with you. I don't know that bishop, and the Warren controverse is cold coffee imo. But as far as I understand the quote you've posted, that bishop isn't criticizing the preaching of moral absolutes, but the preaching of wrong moral absolutes. The preaching of absolutes that contradict the message of the Bible in his opinion. Perhaps I didn't get your point though.
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