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Post by Josh on Jul 22, 2012 21:44:51 GMT -8
Right Beliefs Lead to Right Actions
Saw this bumper sticker today. Agree or disagree or?
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shirley
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 114
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Post by shirley on Jul 22, 2012 23:11:56 GMT -8
Disagree.
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Post by lesbrewer on Jul 23, 2012 5:31:38 GMT -8
"Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" here iam counting on my toes.....
I be serieous now and write Disagree
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Post by stevekimes on Jul 23, 2012 7:47:15 GMT -8
The relationship between belief and action is complex, and can't be summarized on a bumper sticker.
We act out what we really believe. Our actions show not only our beliefs, but our priorities-- what beliefs are more important to us than others. However, we can form our beliefs, and shape them from our actions. Often we are doing what we do from instinct, and then we form our beliefs based on what we are doing. For instance, I yell at my wife and afterward I understand why I was mad at her-- I am usually wrong about my anger, or misinformed about my original belief, but that doesn't mean that I'm not sincere in my later belief that my anger was justified.
If we have "right" beliefs, that is only our conscious beliefs. Our intuitive beliefs still drive our actions more than our conscious beliefs. More often than not, if we want to truly repent and be changed for Christ, we have to understand our true beliefs and then ask the Spirit to change our actions according to the Truth of Christ.
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Post by Josh on Jul 23, 2012 9:03:34 GMT -8
"Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" here iam counting on my toes..... I be serieous now and write Disagree  |
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Post by christopher on Jul 24, 2012 8:53:36 GMT -8
I agree with what Steve wrote. The more our actions (i.e. trusting and obeying Jesus) prove out our beliefs, the more we actually believe them. P.S. Steve, you really need to stop yelling at your wife  |
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Post by atheist jon on Jul 24, 2012 21:07:57 GMT -8
I suppose I could agree with that up to a point. But that is only the start of the conversation really. Most of us could find plenty of common ground on what 'right actions' are, but the real sticking point may be what we as individuals consider 'right beliefs'. Steve, surely there is nothing that cannot be summarized on a bumper sticker? |
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Post by Josh on Jul 25, 2012 9:21:46 GMT -8
Much agreed, steve.
And much agreed, jon, that perhaps the most debatable part of the statement is how we should define "right beliefs".
I have a feeling that behind the intent of the bumper sticker was a very narrow view of what right beliefs are.
As Christians, we know that just having "correct" doctrines doesn't necessarily translate into righteous living. "Beliefs" have to mean more than simply "doctrines"*
*however, that said, I do think even our doctrines have more impact on how we end up living our lives than we often think.
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Post by stevekimes on Jul 28, 2012 18:11:49 GMT -8
jon, I wouldn't know. I'm not a professional bumper sticker writer. Oh, and don't worry about my wife. She ignores me anyway. |
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Post by atheist jon on Jul 28, 2012 21:00:06 GMT -8
Steve. It wasn't me that mentioned your wife, that was Christopher. Your wife sounds very wise though.
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Watchermike
Intermediate Member
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Post by Watchermike on Mar 4, 2013 20:07:23 GMT -8
I would also disagree. The intent of one's beliefs maybe one's own opinion of whats right(Man has a way of reasoning in a selfish way) so his actions maybe way off base to satisfy his own selfish endeavors or actions.It's a way of being right in your own mind.
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Post by Alex on Mar 5, 2013 1:00:36 GMT -8
It's better as a jingle than a proverb, however...
Let's take right and define it as moral or ethical. Let's take ethical as there is a commonality to it that crosses religion (although can vary somewhat by culture).
If (ethical) beliefs don't lead to (ethical) actions, do (unethical) beliefs lead to (ethical) actions?
Let's assume the actions are self driven rather than externally enforced.
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Post by Alex on Mar 5, 2013 1:28:02 GMT -8
This is the perfect time to inject a deep logical progression. Where better than Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?
"
"The Babel fish," said The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy quietly, "is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.
"Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
"The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
"'But,' says Man, 'the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
"'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"'Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
"
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grokit
Intermediate Member
Posts: 50
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Post by grokit on Mar 26, 2013 15:27:21 GMT -8
Let us pick apart the language of the actual bumper sticker and prove how "right" it is.
It says Right Beliefs Lead to Right Actions not right beliefs cause right actions. If you believe "right" things you'll be lead to doing "right" things. The "right" thinking is only a strong influence on your actions, not an absolute controller of actions.
And it is also accurate because "right" doesn't need a definition that we all agree on because the same word is used on both sides of the equation. The bumper sticker could be shorter and just say "beliefs lead to corresponding actions." Or you could put any other word in place of "right" and get a similar result, like ping-pong beliefs lead to ping-pong actions, or sexual beliefs lead to sexual actions, etc.
So, the bumper sticker is completely right (loop-back reference intended) in my estimation.
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Post by Alex on Mar 26, 2013 19:35:43 GMT -8
There is an interesting twist when you take into account Romans 7
Romans 7:18-20 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
The truth is that we often act against our beliefs; we know better but we still compell ourselves to act against them. Is it the belief? It guides us but to realize the action there needs to be more. The clutter of the other foundations that make up ourselves needs to be cleared away for our beliefs to be in keeping with action.
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