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Post by Josh on Sept 8, 2009 16:59:00 GMT -8
This is a question for Robin or Chris (or anyone else who knows).
Could you define the Conditional Mortality perspective to me and explain how it differs from Annihilationism?
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Post by yeshuafreak on Sept 11, 2009 15:51:28 GMT -8
this is interesting. i think i may look this up and see if it is similar to my views.
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Post by christopher on Sept 11, 2009 21:22:53 GMT -8
I don't think they are different. They are synonymous...two ways of saying the same thing if I'm not mistaken. The basic premise of the view is that God alone possesses immortality (1Tim 6:16) and that the eternal life is found in Christ alone.... 1 John 5:11-1311 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
NKJV As I understand it, those that hold the CI view believe that the idea of all mortals having a separate immortal soul (either consigned to eternal torment or eternal paradise) is an ancient Greek philosophy and was imported into Christianity somewhere around Augustine. I think the view overall has strong biblical support, although it's not my favored view. |
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Post by yeshuafreak on Sept 12, 2009 6:46:51 GMT -8
R. Yochanan seemed to believe in conditional mortality judging from his gospel and revelation.
CM and anhialationism are the same thing i think.
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Post by Josh on Sept 12, 2009 7:31:03 GMT -8
Here's why I asked:
When I considered the Annihiliationist perspective and found that it had more biblical support than I previously supposed, I didn't superimpose "conditional morality" on the view. To my mind, the Bible teaches that the soul (or spirit, depending on how you label the immaterial aspect of humanity) survives the death of the body in consciousness (albeit a lesser existence) and awaits the physical resurrection. This would be true of both the saved and the damned.
So, to me, the Annihilatist position meant the belief that after the final resurrection, the damned would be sentenced to their judgment which would last an finite period before they were annihilated.
Conditional Immortality, on the other hand, seems like it would imply thatat the moment of death, those outside of "Christ's life" simply cease to exist. Conditional Immortality seems to deny punishment in the afterlife. Am I missing something here?
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Post by christopher on Sept 12, 2009 7:54:42 GMT -8
Where did you get that idea?
Like any view, there is probably a wide range of variations, but most people I've discussed it with would say there is a punishment after death, but that the final punishment would be annihilation.
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Post by Josh on Sept 12, 2009 8:19:31 GMT -8
Well, if we are by nature not immortal except if we are "in Christ", then are they saying that the damned are "in Christ" for a while? (scratches head)
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Post by yeshuafreak on Sept 12, 2009 16:42:16 GMT -8
no those not in christ are never immortal. there is a reurrection unto life in which we are resurrected in immortal bodies, and there is a resurrection unto life in which the wicked are resurrected, judged, and then suffer the second death in the fire that burns all things unholy and will renovate the earth, called the lke of fire.
shalom
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Post by krhagan19 on Sept 12, 2009 17:28:41 GMT -8
Very interesting, I want need to both read and hear more before I can contribute anything useful. Does anyone have any good links to scholarship surrounding this issue?
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Post by Josh on Sept 12, 2009 20:11:05 GMT -8
How long do you think this suffering will last, in your opinion?
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Post by yeshuafreak on Sept 12, 2009 21:07:34 GMT -8
it will kill them again (ie, "second death) and since i believe that neither the soul nor flesh would survive at death, than they "non-exist" (not really, but you know what i mean).
we know that the suffereing does at least end becasue the earth is renovated by the fire that burns all things unholy, but afterwards we live on the renovated New Earth, so the fire probably stops. althoguuh it could be their since we wouldnt be burn as HOLY people.
shalom
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Post by krhagan19 on Sept 12, 2009 21:43:51 GMT -8
ahh the new Eden as one giant crematorium. How unpleasant.
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Post by yeshuafreak on Sept 13, 2009 11:01:57 GMT -8
exactly why i think the fire stops after renovating the earth.
shalom
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Post by krhagan19 on Sept 13, 2009 14:43:02 GMT -8
lets hope so, or its like we bought an ocean front condo in freakin Nevada!!!
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Post by Josh on Sept 13, 2009 17:02:36 GMT -8
How does your view account for the idea of differing degrees of punishment in hell?
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Post by krhagan19 on Sept 13, 2009 20:57:32 GMT -8
I am still working on my beliefs about punishment in Hell. Right now, facing what I am facing in the immediate future, rather than imagine specific creative ways the devil could torture me for example, I am simply praying for mercy, understanding and deliverance from Hell to Heaven.
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Post by Josh on Sept 13, 2009 21:04:43 GMT -8
Yeah, I don't think you need to be thinking about hell right now. Stand firm in your faith.
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