Mosque at ground zero

[rbbailey]

hnn.us/roundup/entries/127499.html

The Imam at this Mosque has declared Dawa. This is the step taken before declaring Jihad. You invite the infidels to Islam, if they do not respond, you kill them. Dawa is the invitation. This is the word he used to describe the reason he is wanting to build the mosque.

[Kirby]

Some food for thought:

Here are some photos of places that are as equidistant from ground zero, which Sarah Palin reportedly said was "hallowed ground" (I have no source on that)

daryllang.com/blog/4421

[robin]

When will the left get over their hate and obsession with Sarah Palin?

[Kirby]

When will the left get over their hate and obsession with Sarah Palin?

As soon as the right gets over their hate and obsession with Barack Obama. (please see that my tongue is firmly in my cheek!)

[robin]

I thought you might say that, but I'm glad meant it tongue-in-cheek.

[rbbailey]

Raheel Raza is author of Their Jihad ... Not my Jihad, and Tarek Fatah is author of The Jew is Not My Enemy.

Excerpts taken from their article here: www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Mischief+Manhattan/3370303/story.html

Quote:

"When we try to understand the reasoning behind building a mosque at the epicentre of the worst-ever attack on the U.S., we wonder why its proponents don't build a monument to those who died in the attack?

The proposal has been made in bad faith and in Islamic parlance, such an act is referred to as "Fitna," meaning "mischief-making" that is clearly forbidden in the Koran.

The Koran commands Muslims to, "Be considerate when you debate with the People of the Book" -- i.e., Jews and Christians

Building an exclusive place of worship for Muslims at the place where Muslims killed thousands of New Yorkers is not being considerate or sensitive, it is undoubtedly an act of "fitna"

So what gives Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the "Cordoba Initiative" and his cohorts the misplaced idea that they will increase tolerance for Muslims by brazenly displaying their own intolerance in this case?

Do they not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox church near the killing fields of Srebrenica where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered?

...where the funding is coming from? If this mosque is being funded by Saudi sources, then it is an even bigger slap in the face of Americans...

If this mosque does get built, it will forever be a lightning rod for those who have little room for Muslims or Islam in the U.S. We simply cannot understand why on Earth the traditional leadership of America's Muslims would not realize their folly and back out in an act of goodwill.

As for those teary-eyed, bleeding-heart liberals such as New York mayor Michael Bloomberg and much of the media, who are blind to the Islamist agenda in North America, we understand their goodwill.

Unfortunately for us, their stand is based on ignorance and guilt, and they will never in their lives have to face the tyranny of Islamism that targets, kills and maims Muslims worldwide, and is using liberalism itself to destroy liberal secular democratic societies from within."

[Kirby]

I have heard others say similar things, but it really all sounds paranoid to me. Almost like McCarthyism.

Even if all that is true, what do we have to fear? Have we not been promised that God (Truth) will prevail? Do you really think that The US will be taken over by Muslims? (communists, Nazis, Confederates, etc.) What has history shown in that regard?

I respect your right to not support the building of a mosque, but that rhetoric seems to be based on fear, not love, and I don't want any part of it.

[robin]

Do you really think that The US will be taken over by Muslims? (communists, Nazis, Confederates, etc.)

We already have a communist in the White house.

I respect your right to not support the building of a mosque, but that rhetoric seems to be based on fear, not love, and I don't want any part of it.

I don't think opponents are fearful, but rather frustrated. I think frustration is a valid emotion in this case.

[robin]

Now Nancy Pelosi wants to investigate those who oppose the building of the Mosque. Talk about paranoid.

www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2010/aug/17/audio-rep-pelosi-calls-investigation-wtc-mosque-op/

[Kirby]

I don't think opponents are fearful, but rather frustrated. I think frustration is a valid emotion in this case.

I agree frustration is a valid emotion, but if they are not fearful, why spread fear?

Now Nancy Pelosi wants to investigate those who oppose the building of the Mosque. Talk about paranoid.

That is paranoid. Pelosi needs to shut up.

[rbbailey]

Kirby, it's not really fear. Personally, I'm not offended or fearful of it. But so what if any one of us is or isn't? 99.9% of all America could be in full support of something, it could still be a bad idea.

I'm also very aware of the fact that America doesn't just 'happen'. It must be protected. A close look at an agenda driven group that is attached to the group who killed 3000 people in cold blood is warranted. The hundreds of attempted attacks, and the 10-12 actual attacks by 'random' Muslims since 9/11 suggest that the hidden messages that go on inside Mosques could be problematic.

As I said before, they have every right to build it there, but having the right to do something does not make it wise or beneficial.

The things written by the two Muslims that I posted above is not rhetoric. What about when the speaker of the House says people like me should be investigated by the federal government -- I can only hope it is rhetoric.

It's hard to understand the depth of the double standard here... the people who ranted and raved about the cross on the hill in the desert near San Diego are the same group of people who are supporting this Mosque. I guess that's what really gets me about this stuff. It's not even the mosque itself, it's the double standard that is ruining the country.

Double Standard: How about when Obama said that Israel should not build new homes in Jerusalem because it might be, quote, "offensive" to Muslims and Palestinians? Was he being intolerant, hateful, or just applying a double standard? Shouldn't he apply the same standards to this mosque? If so, why shouldn't he speak out?

By the way, McCarthy didn't actually know what he was talking about. He had his whole list of random, made-up names because he was onto something but had no clue, no way of figuring out how to follow through with the pursuing the issues he was seeing.

But, what was he on to? What was he seeing that he could not put his finger on? As it turns out, there were more than 350 Soviet spies active in the U.S. at the time that McCarthy was ranting and raving. One of those spies was a secretary to a cabinet position in the White House. Multiple spies were in the Pentagon. A few of them were in Congress and other parts of the government. All of the others were in defense contracting and military positions.

[robin]

Double Standard: How about when Obama said that Israel should not build new homes in Jerusalem because it might be, quote, "offensive" to Muslims and Palestinians? Was he being intolerant, hateful, or just applying a double standard? Shouldn't he apply the same standards to this mosque? If so, why shouldn't he speak out?

this is a very good point, and one that I had not thought of.

[Kirby]

it's the double standard that is ruining the country

I see your point.

A close look at an agenda driven group that is attached to the group who killed 3000 people in cold blood is warranted. The hundreds of attempted attacks, and the 10-12 actual attacks by 'random' Muslims since 9/11 suggest that the hidden messages that go on inside Mosques could be problematic.

A close look is warranted, but the same logic could be used about the fundamentalist Christians that bomb abortion clinics and threaten doctors. They are "connected" to particular churches or denominations. Does that mean the messages that go on in secret in those churches are problematic? Maybe, but not necessarily. It could be radicals acting independently of the religion, church, or whatever organization they are a part of. Should we suspect Virginia Tech might be plotting something because one of their students shot the place up?

As I said before, they have every right to build it there, but having the right to do something does not make it wise or beneficial.

I agree. I am not necessarily in support of the mosque, I voted "Don't care" in the poll above.

[robin]

A close look is warranted, but the same logic could be used about the fundamentalist Christians that bomb abortion clinics and threaten doctors.

This statement reveals the weakness in your position, in my opinion. The instances where this has taken place (abortion clinic bombings) are extremely rare, and when they have taken place they were universally disavowed by the christian community. your comparison shows that Christianity is nothing like Islam, in either magnitude or response. If it were you would be able to come up with a more valid comparison. In fact no other major world religion is as hateful, and as violent a Islam. The fact is that much of the Muslim world celebrated to acts on 9-11, but I can't remember any celebration by the christian community after a abortion clinic bombing.

[Kirby]

universally disavowed by the christian community

There may not have been dancing in the streets shooting guns in the air, but I spoke with several Christians who stated their approval.
However, you are right that it is a weak argument, beacause, as you state, the magnitude and response is different. My point was that individuals or groups within groups do not necessarily reflect the values and feelings of the group in general.

In fact no other major world religion is as hateful, and as violent a Islam.

Maybe currently, but try telling that to the victims of the Inquisition, the Crusades, or the Holocaust. What about the folks at Westboro Baptist? You or I may not feel connected to them, but they identify as Christian, and to an outsider they are just as hateful as some of the tenents of Islam.

I guess I am trying to say that Muslims are human too, just like the rest of us: sinful, proud, and evil in nature.

[moritz]

I think building a mosque at ground zero is tactless, even if 9/11 wasn't Islam's fault.

[krhagan19]

There are strip clubs closer to ground zero than the actual proposed Mosque. Unless your willing to make the claim that Islam in general is to blame for 9/11 I don't see an argument against building the Mosque. Frankly I think a place of worship is much more tactful than a strip club or gay night club both of which are within a couple blocks of ground zero.