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Post by marcus on Apr 29, 2010 14:19:00 GMT -8
Josh, you wrote:
But here's how I see it: Jennifer's statements were public, so the response is going to be as well.
Please think about that for a minute. I know you're hurt, but you know better than this.
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Post by Josh on Apr 29, 2010 16:44:14 GMT -8
Marcus, are you suggesting that we cannot use a medium like this to take issue with particular problems we have with public figures? Please clarify. Also, on a related vein, I'm curious your thoughts on this thread: www.aletheia.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ironsharpens&action=display&thread=2553But perhaps you're right that the conversation would be better if it were abstracted. I fully intend to split this thread when the new version of the forums comes out later this year (which enables threads to be split), because I think this discussion should ideally be separated from a thread about her art.
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Post by marcus on Apr 29, 2010 17:41:22 GMT -8
No. This medium, for friends and members at Aletheia, is fine. Taking her on "publicly" and justifying it because she's taken it to the public is wrong. Her actions don't give us license to play the same game.
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Post by Josh on Apr 29, 2010 17:53:58 GMT -8
No. This medium, for friends and members at Aletheia, is fine. Taking her on "publicly" and justifying it because she's taken it to the public is wrong. Her actions don't give us license to play the same game. I see. The "public response" I was referring to was on forums, not directly taking her on in a public setting like Larry King. I'm agreed that was a very bad choice.
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Post by marcus on Apr 29, 2010 18:03:26 GMT -8
Okay, good!
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Post by carebear on Apr 29, 2010 18:20:15 GMT -8
I used to go to Horizon Church in San Diego when Miles McPherson was the pastor. Just thought I'd say that....doesn't mean much. And in response to Chris (hope I'm remembering it because I'm too lazy to go to the previous page), I don't think I pay attention to all the sins I see played out in front of me each day. If I see them in my kids I do address it, but I don't necessarily counsel everyone I see who is sinning in some way....but I don't think it's my job to do it for everyone I see.... Was that what you were asking? Definately I think we may let sins like slander go or gluttony or ? Are we counseling people we know who are struggling with pornography, anger, fear, etc.?
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Post by christopher on Apr 29, 2010 20:22:17 GMT -8
Hi Carrie,
You're kind of making my whole point here.
I wanted to ask you how you personally handle sins that are not homosexual in nature because it reveals the bias in the question "what do we do about their homosexuality once we have befriended them?" (paraphrasing). Why would we do anything different than we would do for anyone else we believe to be in sin?
I say this not to criticize you, but to challenge all of our subtle, unrecognized, yet deep rooted, prejudices about this particular issue.
The truth is, like it or not, the western church has lost the culture war on all sexual issues. The sexual revolution has infiltrated the Christian culture to the degree that Christians are not statistically very much different than the rest of the world on matters of fornication, adultery, divorce and remarriage, and...homosexuality.
More than that, Christians are becoming less and less convinced that these things are even wrong at all. How many Christians in the church are openly in their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th illegitimate marriage*? I see no difference between that sexual sin and homosexuality, except that the illegitimate marriage has greater potential for a victim (previous spouse and children that were dumped). But we never seem to see people confronting that do we? We even end up celebrating it by affirming the relationship, holding the wedding ceremony, etc.
So, in my mind, if we're not willing to confront these other sexual sins, it would be the height of hypocrisy to single out homosexuality as the line we draw in the sand, the sin we must confront.
At this point, I think the Holy Spirit picks up where the church has dropped the ball, and convicts the individual on a personal level. Or, it happens within the context of a trusting relationship and in humility (Gal 6:1).
*By "illegitimate", I mean marriages that were entered into without biblical grounds for divorce of the previous marriage, which Jesus flat out calls adultery (Matt 19:9).
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Post by carebear on Apr 29, 2010 21:22:56 GMT -8
I see what you're trying to point out. When I was asking that question it was more because I don't know a whole lot about the deep struggles homosexuals deal with so I wouldn't know how to counsel them as well.....like I do know more about lying to being wrapped in fear or anger, etc. so I knew how to help counsel them if they wanted it after I befriended them, etc. I think if I had a friend who I knew was involved in homosexuality, matters of fornication, adultery, divorce and remarriage (the type you referred to), I would help counsel them if it was the right time and place and I had developed a relationship with them where they knew I cared about them. I don't think I'd let it go.
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Post by rose on Apr 29, 2010 21:43:26 GMT -8
The truth is, like it or not, the western church has lost the culture war on all sexual issues. The sexual revolution has infiltrated the Christian culture to the degree that Christians are not statistically very much different than the rest of the world on matters of fornication, adultery, divorce and remarriage, and...homosexuality. More than that, Christians are becoming less and less convinced that these things are even wrong at all. How many Christians in the church are openly in their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th illegitimate marriage*? I see no difference between that sexual sin and homosexuality, except that the illegitimate marriage has greater potential for a victim (previous spouse and children that were dumped). But we never seem to see people confronting that do we? We even end up celebrating it by affirming the relationship, holding the wedding ceremony, etc. So, in my mind, if we're not willing to confront these other sexual sins, it would be the height of hypocrisy to single out homosexuality as the line we draw in the sand, the sin we must confront. At this point, I think the Holy Spirit picks up where the church has dropped the ball, and convicts the individual on a personal level. Or, it happens within the context of a trusting relationship and in humility (Gal 6:1). *By "illegitimate", I mean marriages that were entered into without biblical grounds for divorce of the previous marriage, which Jesus flat out calls adultery (Matt 19:9). I absolutely agree Chris. It's so maddening to me that while we (the western church in general) point our finger condemning the homosexual community, we allow all kinds of other sins to run rampant within our churches. How we think we can justify that is beyond me. The truth is that many Christians aren't living a life set apart, they aren't "imitating Christ" (or Paul for that matter), and it doesn't seem to be keeping them up at night. Homosexuality has become a hot button and many are ready to jump on the bandwagon of bashing. I'm not referring to anyone in this group because I know you personally and I know you wouldn't do that, but it does irritate me that this sin (living a homosexual lifestyle) has somehow made it's way to the top of the "Most Grievous Sins" list, while other sins - often prevalent in the church - aren't as grievous.
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Post by carebear on Apr 29, 2010 21:48:31 GMT -8
How are we as a church supposed to addess other sexual sins if they are known in our church? And other sins? (I'm not saying I know of any). I'm sure it's a one on one convo and then, where does it end?
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Post by Josh on Apr 30, 2010 7:17:23 GMT -8
How are we as a church supposed to addess other sexual sins if they are known in our church? And other sins? (I'm not saying I know of any). I'm sure it's a one on one convo and then, where does it end? I've written a whole article on this: Mercy Mixed with Fear: The Bible on Church Discipline In fact I'd love to hear other's input on this article. It's my fullest exposition on the subject.
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Post by michelle on May 1, 2010 7:44:13 GMT -8
I used to go to Horizon Church in San Diego when Miles McPherson was the pastor. Just thought I'd say that....doesn't mean much. Hey, I went to The Rock when he started that church! I loved him as a pastor. He's hilarious.
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Post by carebear on May 1, 2010 9:49:22 GMT -8
He was pretty funny wasn't he? I kind of forgot, but he was very funny.
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Post by Kirby on Mar 2, 2012 17:55:23 GMT -8
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