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Post by michelle on Dec 17, 2007 22:29:02 GMT -8
Post your comments, questions, and discussion starters on 1 Samuel 11-15 as replies to this post.
I know that I am going to rip this verse completely out of context, but I just came across a verse that God really used to speak to me. It's 1 Samuel 15:9b. "They destroyed only what was worthless or of poor quality" (NLT). In context, it is talking about the Isrealites destroying the Amalekites and plundering their goods.
But as soon as I read this verse I thought to myself, "that is what God should do to us. We deserve destruction." But He does not see us as "worthless or of poor quality". Even when we make the biggest mistakes or do the worst things...in His eyes we always have value and He always sees who we can be, not who we have been.
Wow, I'm just in awe of Him right now.
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Post by Josh on Mar 15, 2011 20:33:23 GMT -8
As I read these chapters, I am always curious about the "Saul that could have been". I see Saul as a perfect Old Testament example of the tension between free will and determinism- a man who started off well, and even had God's blessing and sanction, but who incrementally let power corrupt him to the point where he had lost nearly all of his free will in the hardening of his heart.
It's such a sad story.
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Post by merrybrandybuck on Aug 2, 2014 7:03:29 GMT -8
Josh, One of the things which you see in scripture and I have experienced in my life is the relentless grace of God. Everyone gets more chances. It's never too late to turn to him and repent. Then there are passages like 1 Samuel 15: 22-31. “Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, he has also rejected you from being king.” 24 Saul said to Samuel, “I have sinned, for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord and your words, because I feared the people and obeyed their voice. 25 Now therefore, please pardon my sin and return with me that I may bow before the Lord.” 26 And Samuel said to Saul, “I will not return with you. For you have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you from being king over Israel.” 27 As Samuel turned to go away, Saul seized the skirt of his robe, and it tore. 28 And Samuel said to him, “The Lord has torn the kingdom of Israel from you this day and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you. 29 And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he is not a man, that he should have regret.” 30 Then he said, “I have sinned; yet honor me now before the elders of my people and before Israel, and return with me, that I may bow before the Lord your God.” 31 So Samuel turned back after Saul, and Saul bowed before the Lord. I always read this passage and cringe. I can use it to fuel my worry that someday God will give up on me. What do you see here? To be honest it makes me afraid and maybe that is the right response. There are consequences for my choices and they may cost me the things I hold dear. Even as I write that I think I have the answer to my worry in my head but I am interested to hear what you say.
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Post by Josh on Aug 2, 2014 7:53:31 GMT -8
Like I said, it is a sad passage. And, like you, we are drawn to see ourselves in it.
Here's something I've found helpful when thinking about Saul:
What if the convservation between God/Samuel and Saul went something like this instead:
"Saul, I am taking the kingdom away from you and giving it to someone more worthy"
"Lord, you know best. I have already endangered the people by my reckless independence too many times. I freely relinquish the crown. Let me go off and become a disciple of the prophets. That time I prophesied among you was the best moment of my life anyway."
Putting it like this highlights the difference between Saul losing his "crown" versus "losing his salvation". It's easy for us to conflate the two. God may revoke our titles but He will never turn away those who come to him in true repentence (John 6:37, etc.)
Think also of the story of Moses, who lost his "ticket to the Promised Land", yet, he still remained close to the Lord. In fact, we find him in the very promised land he was once denied, chatting it up with Elijah and Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration a mere 1400 years or so later.
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Post by Josh on Aug 5, 2014 17:35:35 GMT -8
I stumbled upon another relevant passage today.
It's Numbers 14:20. This is the passage where God declares that that generation will not enter the Promised land and will instead die in the desert. Like the above passage with Saul, we might be tempted to imply from this consequence that God has refused to forgive the Israelites for their lack of faith. However, here is how the passage reads:
"Numbers 14:20-23New International Version (NIV)
20 The Lord replied, “I have forgiven them, as you asked. 21 Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the Lord fills the whole earth, 22 not one of those who saw my glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times— 23 not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their ancestors. No one who has treated me with contempt will ever see it.
In reading the severe consequence we easily miss that God affirms that the people are FORGIVEN, just as Moses asked. Just another example that God's judgments do not negate his love.
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