|
Post by Josh on Dec 14, 2007 17:12:52 GMT -8
This is the grand-daddy of all OT passages that Christians consider prophetic of Jesus (along with Daniel 9:24-27, which I'd say is the Grandmother). Below I've added some commentary. Perhaps some of you can sift through it and offer up some comments or questions.
Isaiah 52:13-53:12
13 See, my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. 14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him— his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness— 15 so will he sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand. 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. 11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Jul 8, 2008 9:59:30 GMT -8
OK, I'm going to start dissecting this prophetic passage from Isaiah. Keep in mind that this passage is dated by everyone between 800 AD to 400 AD, at least 400 years but probably more before the life of Jesus-
Part 1:
13 See, my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. 14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him— his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness— 15 so will he sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.
Who is the "servant"? Well, this future figure of hope has already appeared several times in Isaiah before this point. He is the hope of Israel and many things are said about what He will do when He comes.
First, the obvious parallels (though not all of these are by any means conclusive evidence that Jesus is the fulfillment):
"act wisely"
Jesus, of course, was known as wise even among his detractors
"raised and lifted up and highly exalted"
There is a double-fulfillment of this in Jesus, of course. It was through the very act of his being raised and lifted up to judgment on the cross that he was raised and lifted up and highly exalted among the nations of the earth- which, btw, was the hope of Israel since Abraham- that in some way Israel would become a blessing to all nations
"many appalled at him/ appearance disfigured/ marred beyond human likeness"
A prediction of the horrible suffering to befall the Messiah/ servant, particularly applicable to a death by crucifixion.
"sprinkle many nations"
Sprinkling is a reference to the Jewish sacrificial system, part of which was the priestly sprinking of atoning blood. This is radical, because it predicts that the servant wouldn't just atone for the Jews, but for the nations of the world (non-Jews)
"kings will shut their mouths because of him/ what they were not told they see, etc.."
The amount of times this happened in history because of the gospel message is without count. In fact, this is basically the story of the first several centuries of christianity- and still continues to be true in its own way in the modern context.
More to come....
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Sept 1, 2008 19:46:53 GMT -8
Part II
1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Verses 1 above implies that some may doubt the message about the Messiah- that not all might believe.
Verse 2 speaks of the unlikely nature of the suffering servant- that he would come out of an unlikely place. Earlier in Isaiah 9, the prophet had predicted that God would bless Galilee of the Gentiles (an often overlooked and detached part of Israel) at the coming of the Messiah. It also speaks to the unattractive nature of the suffering servant, which fits nicely with the ambivalent response that Jesus often received, as well as his rejection of the popular military messiah motifs. His rejection, one of the strange features of Isaiah's predictions about this Messianic figure, is in full view here and fits perfectly with the response of many to Jesus.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Oct 25, 2008 17:53:12 GMT -8
PART III
4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
This section challenges the commonly held modern day Jewish interpretation of this passage, which holds that the suffering servant here and elsewhere in Isaiah is not to be seen as an individual Messiah figure, but as the nation of Israel as a whole.
But in this section of this prophecy we see a clear dileneation between us (Israel) and him (the suffering servant/ Messiah).
This section predicts, as elsewhere in the OT, that the purpose of the Messiah's coming would be to serve as an atonement for sins AND that this purpose would be misunderstood by many in Israel.
I'm slowly working my way through this passage, but if anyone has additional thoughts, questions, or observations on this important prophecy, please jump right in. I love this stuff.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Oct 27, 2008 19:09:59 GMT -8
Part IV
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
Verse 7 rules out most (actually all that I'm aware of) 1st Century would-be Messianic condenders in stipulating that the Messiah would not speak out against his oppression, but receive it willingly, as the Gospels report Jesus did. Even if one doubts the NT documents, historically speaking Jesus doesn't seem to have taken advantage of numerous opportunities to avoid martyrdom. That's just one strand of evidence pointing toward the conclusion that at the least Jesus believed He was the suffering servant.
Verse 8 says clearly that the suffering servant/ Messiah would be put to death in judgment. Somewhat trickier to arrange for yourself (though not, of course, impossible).
Verse 9 predicts that, as elsewhere stated, the Messiah would be associated in his death with the wicked/ criminals/ transgressors, as of course a crucified individual would be. However, assigned a grave with the rich is interesting. The gospels claim that this was fulfilled in that Joseph of Arimathea (a rich man) paid for the tomb Jesus was buried in. This would be a somewhat more difficult feat for a Messianic pretender to fabricate (and why bother if you're going to die anyway). Still, followers who believed that someone who was the Messiah could possibly have fabricated, force-fulfilled this prophecy.
Next time, on to a consderation of virtually the only OT prediction that the Messiah would rise from the dead.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Dec 13, 2008 10:52:37 GMT -8
Part V
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. 11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
As a side note, I think verse 10 is a great example that God's will doesn't always equal his desire.
Anyway, that the death of the Messiah is in view, and not merely suffering, is made known in verse 12 "he poured out his life unto death" and also by the simple fact that he could not be considered an "offering" if he didn't lay down his life.
And yet the passage says that after this his "days will be prolonged" and he will "see the light of life and be satisfied". Though this may simply be a reference to life after death, in retrospect it can be seen as a hint at Jesus' bodily resurrection. This is strengthened by the idea that he will be given a "portion among the great", which in the OT view, was not something the physically dead would enjoy.
Lastly, from the Christian view, one phrase is seen in a more spiritual light:
"he will see his offspring"
The Christian interpretation would be that this would refer to the members of His Church- his spiritual progeny, rather than physical descendants.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Feb 22, 2009 21:21:29 GMT -8
Mo, this would be a good one to mix it up on, since you were alluding to it on the other thread. And we've never really talked prophecy before.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Jul 6, 2012 8:19:39 GMT -8
Response on this from Emmet Southwick on facebook:
My understanding is that the interpretation you are advocating wasn't strongly developed until the middle ages (under the influence of Rashi). However, the oldest Jewish commentaries saw this passage as about the Messiah (Targum on Isaiah, for example, dating at least a hundred years BC. ) Likewise, the Babylonian Talmud treats this passage as having a future fulfillment in the Messiah. The Midrash also contains numerous comments by rabbis referring to the suffering servant as the future Messiah.
I see the interpretation that this passage is simply talking about the redemptive suffering of righteous persons within ancient Israel as a way for Jewish commentators to avoid the embarrassing conclusion that though the vast majority of ancient commentators saw this passage as referring to a future, individual Messiah, it didn't pan out that way (except in the person of Jesus).
So, what I'm saying is that ancient Jewish thought and commentary on this passage are more aligned with the Christian understanding than the modern Jewish understanding.
Furthermore, though of course in general ways the suffering servant of Isaiah looks a lot like the righteous prophets (Jeremiah or Isaiah himself, for instance), when you get down to the particulars of the prophecy, I think the connection starts to break down.
What do you think? Help me find the holes in the my argument.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Jul 6, 2012 11:43:06 GMT -8
Thanks for the reply! I don't expect a response to this, unless you have time, but for what it's worth: I do realize that historical Jewish interpretation on just about any Scripture passage contains a bewildering amount of diversity (they might even beat Christian commentators ), but I don't think that it's deniable that from the evidence we have earliest trends were decidedly in support of seeing the suffering servant as a future Messiah. Granted, there is a time gap between the writings of the prophets and the earliest collected commentaries that we may not be able to bridge. Still, if the original listeners were satisfied that such prophecies were fulfilled in the lives of the prophets, it's hard to see how message would have turned so strongly Messianic *. Of course the ancients aren't necessarily more correct because they are ancient. However, they do in my mind have a favorable edge vis a vis relative proximity. That would be an interesting discussion. Perhaps some day time will allow. But I'll say this: if this prophecy was fulfilled in general terms in the life of the pre and post exilie prophets but then was fulfilled even more explicitly in the life of a later Jewish prophet (Jesus), would't that be cause to see God's endorsement of Jesus as the ultimate Suffering Servant? *then again, maybe not, if one considered how for instance, Christians have ripped the Olivet discourse out of context
|
|
|
Post by stevekimes on Jul 7, 2012 19:23:14 GMT -8
I think that within the context of Isaiah (dare I say, Deutero-Isaiah), however, it makes more sense that the passage is talking about a suffering man (possibly a martyr) due to the mechanizations of the returning people to Judah. One possible interpretation is that they caused someone to suffer and so they realized their own sin and it led them to repentance.
I think that the passage isn't speaking of substitutionary atonement in any way, but instead is using language to speak of cause and effect. I also think that the "servant" isn't speaking about Jesus exclusively (although it certainly includes him), but can ultimately be applied to all righteous martyrs/sufferers. I think that the theology of the NT reflects this, as the sufferers/martyrs for Jesus causes redemption, just like Jesus' death did (Col 1:24; Rev. 12:11)
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Jul 8, 2012 15:19:33 GMT -8
1 Peter 1:10-12 10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.2 Peter 1:20-21 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.In passages such as these in the New Testament, we learn that there was a superintending influence over the writings of the Prophets. To what degree the prophets themselves (Isaiah, Deutero-I, or Trito-I or any of the others) were aware that a particular passage they wrote was referring to Christ, we cannot say with absolute certainty. Some OT prophecies seem to have a future personal Messiah clearly in view (such as Micah 5:2, for instance), while others may have had a dual fulfillment (such as the 'virgin' who will conceive in Isaiah 7). Peter seems to suggest that there may have been many utterances that the Prophets themselves did not understand. That the Holy Spirit was superintending a Messianic oracle on Isaiah 52-53 is revealed in Philip's message to the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8: 32-35: 32 The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture: "He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before the shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 33 In his humiliation he was deprived of justice. Who can speak of his descendants? For his life was taken from the earth." 34 The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. Of course that's not a proof text an unbeliever would find convincing, but for us... I happen to think that Isaiah in at least some of his references to the Suffering Servant was overtly thinking of a future Messiah* Or possibly that he just didn't know how the words might be fulfilled. However, even if he was assuming that God's words to Him had another interpretation, it doesn't negate the fact that the prophecy was fulfilled more truly, fully, and literally in Jesus than in the lives of the other prophets or in the experience of the Exile** *Definitely a future personal Messiah in Isaiah 9:1-7, though possibly himself in 49:1-7 **I use the term Exile narrowly here. One could argue that the exile continued into Jesus day in many ways.
|
|
|
Post by stevekimes on Jul 9, 2012 9:01:33 GMT -8
Again, I am not denying that the passage is about Jesus. I am denying that it is exclusively about Jesus. And I think that this passage is different than, say, Psalm 22, which applies to David metaphorically, but applies to Jesus very directly, and so is a better "fit". I think that Isa 52-53 doesn't specifically "fit" Jesus atonement better than any other martyr's atonement.
|
|