John 16: The Holy Spirit

[Josh]

Please post your comments/ questions/ discussion starters on John chapter 16 as replies here.

[Josh]

Though a very tender chapter, I find this one challenging. Jesus makes some very grandious claims about the Spirit here:

23In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.

How are we to interpret this realisitically? Elsewhere in Scripture these kind of statements come with a qualifier: "whatever you ask, according to my will"...

Still, what is Jesus saying about how our normal experience should look as Christians. Why do so few of us experience 'complete joy' on a normal basis?

Although I would definitely say that I have experienced more of God's joy and peace as I have come to know Him better, it still seems like Jesus is describing something beyond my experience. And I know of others who are further along than I am who still continue(d) to wrestle with inner turmoil on a daily basis. What is meant to be comforting still brings up more questions than answers for me.

13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth.

I've seen this one used as a 'blank check' by all kinds of cultists. Taken by itself, this verse is very akin to the Mormon "burning in the bosom" way of validating almost any truth claim they want to by mere intuition.

Of course it's important not to read this verse in isolation. The Holy Spirit does reveal truth for the situations we find ourselves in- but not truth in contradiction to what God has revealed elsewhere in His Word.

Perhaps the verses that follow back this up:

He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

But also, imagine the situation the disciples were in. There was no New Testament- no roadmap for the Church but the inner conviction of the Holy Spirit. And it was that Holy Spirit that eventually bestowed on us through the disciples the texts of the New Covenant.

[Josh]

In John 16:7a, Jesus tells the disciples: "It is for your good that I am going away".

So, how is it better that the physical Jesus has left and the invisible Holy Spirit has come? In what ways?

[Josh]

The one reason I think is most obvious is that having Jesus-in-the-flesh leave meant that the focus of Christianity would no longer be limited to one finite place in the world. The Holy Spirit would be the "spirit of Jesus" (as Paul puts it) spread out for all everywhere. And it's true that after the Holy Spirit came, the faith began to spread throughout the world.

So, this is better because more people and places can be reached with the kingdom of God.

However, are there other reasons it's better? Is our relationship more intimate with God because of the Holy Spirit?

[carebear]

This is interesting: the pastor at Westside Vineyard was talking about this same chapter on Sunday night. He mentioned that thing Jesus said about Him going away and the Holy Spirit coming. The pastor said Jesus was essentially saying, "I'm going away but I'm really going to stay through the Holy Spirit." He said we are baptized once with the Holy Spirit and then we can get filled over and over again with the Holy Spirit and this is about intimacy with Him. When we get filled with the Holy Spirit, we are being filled and receiving God's love, intimacy and fellowship (it's not just about power, etc.). God loves to be with us and commune with us intimately.

[carebear]

I super duper love that God/Jesus allowed His Spirit to be with us and comfort us!!!!! He is so sweet and close

[carebear]

In Your Presence oh God there is fullness of joy. At the right hand of God there is pleasure ever more!