|
Post by Josh on Sept 27, 2007 15:56:48 GMT -8
Post your comments/ questions/ discussion starters on John chapter 14 as replies here.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Oct 2, 2007 15:09:27 GMT -8
1"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. 2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
I love how Jesus goes out of his way to assure us of the eternal promise of following Him. He reminds us directly that just as He proved Himself trustworthy, we can trust that in the end all will be well.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Aug 29, 2011 20:35:49 GMT -8
elsewhere Chris wrote: Read more: www.aletheia.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=afterlife&action=display&thread=3423&page=1#ixzz1WU3BdKxmChris, here's the fuller passage in context. I'm curious to hear your case that 14:1-4 is not referring at all to heaven. 31 When he was gone, Jesus said, “Now the Son of Man is glorified and God is glorified in him. 32 If God is glorified in him,[c] God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once. 33 “My children, I will be with you only a little longer. You will look for me, and just as I told the Jews, so I tell you now: Where I am going, you cannot come.
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
36 Simon Peter asked him, “Lord, where are you going?”
Jesus replied, “Where I am going, you cannot follow now, but you will follow later.”
37 Peter asked, “Lord, why can’t I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you.”
38 Then Jesus answered, “Will you really lay down your life for me? Very truly I tell you, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times!
1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.” Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Aug 31, 2011 19:18:04 GMT -8
I almost missed this...I'll be back to explain later.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Aug 31, 2011 21:43:18 GMT -8
Ok, first, I want to say that my view is not original to me. I first heard this interpretation suggested by Steve Gregg (surprise, surprise ) several years ago and it makes a lot of sense to me. It goes something like this. Starting in John 14:2, Jesus says: John 14:2-3 2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. NKJV The word that is translated “mansions” here (poor translation) is the greek word “mone” (NT3438) prounounced mon-ay’. The only other occurrence of the word in the whole bible is in the same chapter in verse 23: John 14:23 "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home (mone) with him. NKJV This is in response to a question from one of His disciples about how Jesus will manifest Himself to them and not the world. Notice in this verse He doesn’t say “I will come to you and take you back with me to heaven”, He says He and the Father will come to them and make their home with them. In the New Testament, God’s “house” always refers to the church (or the temple before the cross), not heaven. For example: Heb 3:6 “…but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast… “
1 Peter 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? So then the “mansions” or dwelling places in God’s “house” are actually referring to people in the church (house of God), and there are many of them. Just like Peter said: 1 Peter 2:5 …you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. In the context you provided, it’s very tempting to our pre-conditioned ears to hear Jesus telling Peter, “Look Peter, I’m going to heaven, and I’m going there to build you a big fancy mansion on nice green rolling pastures for you to live out eternity in luxury. You can’t come just yet, but hang in there, you’ll get there soon enough (wink)”. But I think it’s more likely that He’s saying something like, “I’m going to do something that will seem shocking to you, something you won’t understand at first. I’m going to Jerusalem and I’m going to be delivered up and killed on a cross so that I can save the world. You can’t follow me in this just yet, but someday, when you understand what I’ve done, you will indeed follow me there”. And as tradition has it, Peter did follow Him to the cross later on his life.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Sept 1, 2011 18:14:11 GMT -8
I don't disagree with anything you said there. The kingdom of God is the kingdom of heaven and it began with Jesus' establishment of the church and it isn't some paradise in the sky, it's God's tabernacling with his people here, when earth and heaven become one.
However, let's put it this way, the mansions aren't done yet, and it sure seems to read that Jesus is saying they won't be until we die- that death (and resurrection) is the way to the final establishment of these houses He's building.
So, I think I can have my cake (that this passage is about the afterlife) and eat yours too (that it is about something that has already begun).
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Sept 1, 2011 21:55:53 GMT -8
Well, I certainly wouldn't want deny you your cake . For me, I just no longer see any specific reference to any information on the afterlife or "heaven" as it were in this particular passage. So I personally wouldn't use it to make the argument that we have more "revelation" about heaven than David did. But I do agree that the Kingdom of God is synonymous with the Kingdom of Heaven and as such results in a favorable afterlife for those who are in it.
|
|