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Post by michelle on Feb 5, 2007 20:43:18 GMT -8
11/05:
Romans 2:1-11 says so many things I think it should be it's own chapter. First, I feel incredibly convicted by verse 1. I think one of the virtues that I would most like to obtain is being non-judgemental. Why is this so difficult?? Is it difficult for others as well? I know that when someone is judgemental of me I am irritated by it, so why would I do it to other people? Does anyone else struggle with this and how have you dealt with it?
Second, verses 6-11 brings up some things that I have been asked by non-Christians. Are Christians "ranked" in Heaven based on their time on earth? Do Christians receive different rewards based on what they did/did not do on earth? Is sin, sin regardless of the extreme nature (we touched on this tonight)? Does God see a difference between murder and lying? How does one answer these types of questions?
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Post by Josh on Feb 5, 2007 21:33:15 GMT -8
11/05:
Remember that there is a sense in which we are to judge- we are just to judge without hypocrisy. Paul elsewhere says we ARE to judge those in the Church but not those outside (1 Cor. 5:9-13). Jesus said Judge not, lest you be judged, also emphasizing that we should not judge with hypocrisy. I think also there is a difference between Judging someone's eternal destiny and Judging whether someone's actions are in accord with their faith. Clearly, the first kind of judgment is reserved for the Lord only, but we must judge unrepentant sin in the church. Jesus says this as well: Matthew 18: 15-17.
BTW, Check out Romans 2:24: Our hypocrisy can cause the outside world to Blaspheme God! Talk about some great motivation to live a holy life!
There is another kind of "judgment" we should surely all avoid- judging people for things that are not clearly sin, or judging people by our own prejudices- see 1 Corinthians 4:5.
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Post by sarah on Feb 5, 2007 21:34:31 GMT -8
11/05:
I love vs4 I have personaly experienced and seen how the kindness of the Lord leads us to repentance and I am challenged to remember that and not show contempt for who he is and the riches of his kindness,tolerence and patience.
In response to your question, I think that the passage shows that there is not favoritism. GIfts and judgement are given equally to both, but one will be reconciled first. I do believ that God's wrath will not be rested upon Christians. That is the whole point of being saved. It is in fact what we are saved from. Judgment before a holy God. God sees us through Christ and his righteousness. We are in fact "hidden" in Christ. Will we give an acounting of our lives, certainly, but not for wrath, for blessing.
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Post by Josh on Feb 5, 2007 21:35:17 GMT -8
11/05:
Verses 10 and 11 are funny because they say: the Jew first and then the Gentile and then say there is no favoritism! What to make of this. Well, I think it just has to do with who the message was sent to first (Jews). They (Jews), then, in turn brought the message to the Gentiles. But Gentiles are not inferior in God's eyes.
Also- does anyone see in Romans 2:15 some slight 'loophole' of salvation for the Gentile who hasn't heard the gospel? If a Gentile's consciences might 'excuse them' on judgment day, doesn't that seem to imply some hope for them? Perhaps a clue to what we talked about when we studied Eternity in their Hearts- being saved by Jesus on faith (having his righteousness imputed) without necessarily knowing his name.
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Post by michelle on Feb 5, 2007 21:36:09 GMT -8
11/05:
I love vs4 I have personaly experienced and seen how the kindness of the Lord leads us to repentance and I am challenged to remember that and not show contempt for who he is and the riches of his kindness,tolerence and patience.
In response to your question, I think that the passage shows that there is not favoritism. GIfts and judgement are given equally to both, but one will be reconciled first. I do believ that God's wrath will not be rested upon Christians. That is the whole point of being saved. It is in fact what we are saved from. Judgment before a holy God. God sees us through Christ and his righteousness. We are in fact "hidden" in Christ. Will we give an acounting of our lives, certainly, but not for wrath, for blessing.
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Post by Josh on Feb 5, 2007 21:36:54 GMT -8
11/05:
Just a clarification on 'those who haven't heard the gospel' being saved. Although this passage speaks of their consciences excusing them on some points, we must continue to insist that no one (whether they've heard the gospel or not) is saved on the basis of their works. The 'noble pagan' would still be saved by calling on the grace of God, not on following the inner law. Following the inner law might be a sign that they have relied on his grace, but it in and of itself does not save them, just as it is with us who have heard the Gospel.
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