hume
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Posts: 136
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Post by hume on Feb 15, 2007 16:43:30 GMT -8
11/05:
If anyone's interested, here's a possible source-text for the Eastern Orthodox doctrine of deification -- i.e., "participation in the divine nature": from 2 Peter 1:
"Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him ... he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love ...
Therefore ... be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
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Post by Josh on Feb 15, 2007 16:44:42 GMT -8
11/05:
Check out the King James version of verse 4:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
I imagine 'partakers' is probably closer to the EO idea of sharing in God's divinity than just 'participate'. If I had some more time, I might look into other translations and see if we can see what might be the Best translation here (I don't usually hold with the King James, but the NIV isn't really that great either). What does the NRSV say, I'm curious (I've heard that's one of the best).
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hume
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Post by hume on Feb 15, 2007 16:45:52 GMT -8
11/05:
"that ... ye might be partakers of the divine nature"
Just wondering if there's a connection between this and the eucharist -- isn't communion spoken of as a "participation" in Christ's suffering & etc.? Is it something more than mere "remembrance"? (Are we running up against further translation issues here?)
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hume
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Post by hume on Feb 15, 2007 16:46:30 GMT -8
11/05:
I realize I'm talking to myself here, but what the heck:
"Logos [is] the bond between God and the world, between truth and the mind. Christ, as the logos of God, becomes this very link between truth and the mind" [John D. Zizioulas]
"The Incarnate Christ, who is both human and divine, is understood as the embodiment of the fully human, containing the realized potential of humanity in [its] anticipated deified state ... - in short, the Incarnate Christ is the essence preceded by existence, for this essence resides in the future, as the goal of the human project, so to speak. Christ preceded us, insofar as He is God; but He beckons us from futurity, insofar as He is the embodiment of the essence or nature of which we will partake when theôsis is achieved by all." [Edward Moore]
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Post by Josh on Feb 15, 2007 16:47:37 GMT -8
11/05:
Hmmm... the last quote seems to imply that believers will attain to equality with Christ. Is there not a distinction that will always remain between Christ and our eventual Christ-like participation in the Deity?
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hume
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Post by hume on Feb 15, 2007 16:48:32 GMT -8
11/05:
A natural (and healthy) reaction. Are the Orthodox straying into Mormonism here (little Gods and all that)? I don't think so -- it seems to me that your reaction (I have it too) reveals something lacking in the common (Western?) understanding of the Incarnation. Yes, a Christian should guard against "mixing up" God and man in any way that either reduces God or glorifies humanity inappropriately. But the mistake on the other extreme is to forget the profound (and good) sense in which Christ really does "mix up" God and man. My original understanding (from childhood I guess) of the basic economy of salvation was never entirely satisfying to me. "Christ died for your sins" -- great, a clean slate. Now what?
Is Christianity nothing more than the spiritual equivalent of emergency surgery? When you get out of the E.R., you're certainly grateful to have regained your health; but being healthy is not the point of life, it's just one of the prerequisites for it.
For me at least, the Orthodox view of salvation filled in some blanks. It's a dynamic vision: Christ actively and directly reconnected humanity with God. Christians are more than just in a state of salvation, they are participants in the Divine nature. The Orthodox suggest that Adam and Eve were just the beginning. Far more than being restored to the original human condition, through Christ we are offered the opportunity to fulfill the deepest human potentials.
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Post by Josh on Feb 15, 2007 16:49:33 GMT -8
11/05:
Yes, but can't we say it in a more nuanced way? It really shouldn't be too hard to affirm both the continuity we will have with the risen Christ and the difference in order or magnitude.
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hume
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Post by hume on Feb 15, 2007 16:50:56 GMT -8
11/05:
Maybe it's more difficult than you suggest. Maybe it's too easy to, essentially, affirm one aspect of Christ -- his divinity -- in a way that minimizes his humanity. Once again, the Incarnation dares us to take it seriously. Do we?
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Post by christopher on Dec 30, 2007 8:17:18 GMT -8
I hope you don't mind me commenting on old threads: I wanted to add a few verses for consideration on this topic. John 17:20-23 20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one: , and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. NKJVThere seems to be some mysterious sense in which we become "one" with God (not to be confused with Buddhist or other Eastern thought). I think theses verses might give us some more clues: John 14:16-18 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. NKJVand.... John 14:20-23 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" 23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. NKJVWe usually speak of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit. However, this verse seems to suggest an indwelling of sorts of the whole Godhead. Perhaps in this manner, we partake of the 'divine nature'. There is both "oneness" (indwelling) and "uniqueness" (individual living stones that form the temple). In any case, a mystery nonetheless.
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Post by Josh on Jan 6, 2008 20:10:03 GMT -8
Post away on the old threads, by all means! All of you!
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