Crossing the Jordan: A Natural Explanation?

[Josh]

Originally posted 12/28/06:

Hey guys, I should have probably just had us read the text of Joshua, because I think it does a better job arguing for a naturalistic miracle of timing than I did for it.

So, for those of you not there, I was trying to use the Israelite's crossing of the Jordan River as an example of a 'miracle of timing' brought about by natural means: ie, an earthquake causing a landslide several miles north at a town called Damia today, which is the same root word as Adam, in the Joshua text. Landslides in this region have completely blocked the flow of the Jordan river several times in recorded history (AD 1267, 1906, 1927), sometimes for up to 2 days.

So, it seems to me since we have this historical precedent, it's likely that's what God used to clear the river for the Israelite's crossing. It would therefor be a 'miracle of timing', but explainable in terms of normal, known science.

I think looking at the actual text of Joshua gives us clues that this is probably what occurred.

First, the relevant text, following by some comments:

Joshua 3:13-17
13 And as soon as the priests who carry the ark of the LORD—the Lord of all the earth—set foot in the Jordan, its waters flowing downstream will be cut off and stand up in a heap.”
14 So when the people broke camp to cross the Jordan, the priests carrying the ark of the covenant went ahead of them. 15 Now the Jordan is at flood stage all during harvest. Yet as soon as the priests who carried the ark reached the Jordan and their feet touched the water’s edge, 16 the water from upstream stopped flowing. It piled up in a heap a great distance away, at a town called Adam in the vicinity of Zarethan, while the water flowing down to the Sea of the Arabah (the Salt Sea ) was completely cut off. So the people crossed over opposite Jericho. 17 The priests who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the middle of the Jordan, while all Israel passed by until the whole nation had completed the crossing on dry ground.

Joshua 4:15-18
15 Then the LORD said to Joshua, 16 “Command the priests carrying the ark of the Testimony to come up out of the Jordan.”
17 So Joshua commanded the priests, “Come up out of the Jordan.”
18 And the priests came up out of the river carrying the ark of the covenant of the LORD. No sooner had they set their feet on the dry ground than the waters of the Jordan returned to their place and ran at flood stage as before.

Note the following:

1)the waters are cut-off from upstream (stopped flowing, not piled up on both sides), and they stood in a heap at the town of Adam

2)although the river bottom is called 'charabbah' or 'dry ground', the contention that this word is only relative in relation to covered with water becomes clearer when in verse 18 we are told that the Israelites left the river to step on 'charabbah' or 'dry ground' as if they WEREN'T in it while they were in the river. This can be explained by the fact that the Hebrew language is actually quite small.

3)note that it probably only lasted a few hours

4)note that it's a 'double miracle of timing', because it stopped AND started at just the right times.

The New International Version, (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House) 1984.

[Josh]

Since we're studying this this week, I thought I'd resurrect this thread. Comments/ Questions?

[christopher]

I guess my only question is...what's the significance to the story?

Whether or not it was by naturalistic means or by providential arrest of natural laws, it's pretty clear that God caused it, right?

And if God is able to part the Red sea, and make the sun stand still to demonstrate His power to the Israelites, then why wouldn't He also choose to do this miraculously so that there could be no doubt that it was God doing it? Remember, most of these people are a generation removed from the Exodus. It doesn't hurt them to see a bonafide miracle as they go in for a hostile take over against the odds.

[Josh]

Well, I do think a landslide with perfect timing is a bona fide miracle.

Plus, I'm of the persuasion that miracles never "break" laws of nature in the first place (aletheia.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=miracles&action=display&thread=421)

You asked whether I thought God "caused it". Yes, I do. But I'm not sure whether He "caused it" right then and there or if He simply caused it at the beginning of time as the result of a casual chain (both options are open to God- but in this case I'm a bit persuaded that it was the latter).

The fact that this "miracle" actually occurs naturally leads me to think that the primary reason this event was "miraculous" was the timing, not the blocking of the river itself.

[Josh]

I guess my only question is...what's the significance to the story?

It's a side note to the story (thus the separate thread), but it is significant (at least to me) because it gives us a glimpse as to the various nature of miracles, which I'm curious about. Aren't you?

This is the kind of answer I give to students who complain why they need to know some "trivial" fact from history.

I just say, "because it's dang interesting!!! That's why!" ;D

[christopher]

Ok, I'll give you that, it's "dang interesting".

Two things to note however,

1. It was said to be "as the Lord your God did to the Red sea" (4:23). I don't see the Red sea crossing as a timely natural phenomenon. If it were, why would it scare the pee wads out of the Canaanites?

2. you wrote:

I'mof the persuasion that miracles never "break" laws of nature in the first place

So creating a universe ex nihilo doesn't violate the 1st law of thermodynamics? Never say never

[Josh]

It was said to be "as the Lord your God did to the Red sea" (4:23). I don't see the Red sea crossing as a timely natural phenomenon. If it were, why would it scare the pee wads out of the Canaanites?

I'm open to the possibility that it was a "naturally occuring phenomenon"- the text itself might suggest this by insisting it was a wind that drove the waters apart.

That wouldn't diminish it's miraculous nature in my mind nor cause the Eygptians to be less fearful. A God who can so arrange the workings of nature so as to deliver His people and punish His enemies at just the right time is certainly awe-inspiring on it's own.

So creating a universe ex nihilo doesn't violate the 1st law of thermodynamics? Never say never

Well, first of all when the universe was created there was as of yet no "1st law of thermodynamics". Secondly, what we call "laws" are simply our best understanding of how things work in the natural realm as of yet. When I say God doesn't break his laws I mean that everything that He does is rational and works within the system He created. I do believe He created a system in which He can directly intervene. But that isn't a breaking of the parameters He endowed the universe with.

Read that thread I linked to above. I think I explained this further there.

Lest this seem like merely an exercise in semantics, this line of thinking is important to philosophers because it answers the question of how an omnipotent God cannot create a round square or a rock He cannot lift, and yet is able to arrange or produce the things we call "miracles".