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Post by rbbailey on Apr 1, 2011 19:37:48 GMT -8
What does the Bible say about second lives?
Nothing?
No, it doesn't happen?
Yes, it is possible if you read it this way or that way?
This would, of course, be for the purpose of getting a second chance to get it right.
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Post by Josh on Apr 1, 2011 20:29:06 GMT -8
Do you mean by "second lives" something like reincarnation?
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Post by stevekimes on Apr 1, 2011 23:19:03 GMT -8
Biblical resurrection is a second chance at life, assuming that the first was altogether too difficult and full of suffering to get it right.
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Post by Josh on Apr 2, 2011 8:34:00 GMT -8
Biblical resurrection is a second chance at life, assuming that the first was altogether too difficult and full of suffering to get it right. I can't tell if this is a plug for universalism or the sigh of a "man of constant sorrows" ;D |
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Post by matthew on Apr 2, 2011 12:58:28 GMT -8
I anyone out there besides me astounded that universalism is on the rise? I guess I should find that thread and raise questions there but I find it so diametrically opposed to Christ's teachings that my jaw drops. (and I'm an annihilationist)
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Post by Josh on Apr 2, 2011 18:43:43 GMT -8
I anyone out there besides me astounded that universalism is on the rise? I guess I should find that thread and raise questions there but I find it so diametrically opposed to Christ's teachings that my jaw drops. (and I'm an annihilationist) Matt, here's the thread. It's long, but I think it's pretty thorough and addresses most of the major points/ counter-points, etc.. Universal ReconciliationI think you'll find after looking into the topic that there's a stronger case for Christian universalism than you think. Enough that I'm undecided between the three major views. Feel free and add your thoughts there. I'm going to move this thread to the Afterlife sub-folder on the "other topics", btw, ben. |
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Post by stevekimes on Apr 2, 2011 21:33:07 GMT -8
Biblical resurrection is a second chance at life, assuming that the first was altogether too difficult and full of suffering to get it right. I can't tell if this is a plug for universalism or the sigh of a "man of constant sorrows" ;D It's my reading of the Biblical text and I'm decidedly not universalistic. Although if God considers that to be an option, I'm all for it. However, it would require some MASSIVE purgatory.  "We are fellow heirs with Christ if we have joined in his sufferings" Rom 8:17 |
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Post by rbbailey on Apr 3, 2011 18:59:11 GMT -8
Well, I'm just wondering for the purpose of being able to talk about it directly, specifically, with non-Christians.
I assume the idea of reincarnation is not new, or reserved for the eastern mystic religions, I'm just trying to remember where, if anywhere, it is specifically referenced in the Bible.
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Post by Josh on Apr 3, 2011 19:34:53 GMT -8
Here are some related passages in Scripture:
1) Hebrews 9:26-28
26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
This could be seen as a denial of reincarnation.
2) I suppose some might claim that John the Baptist could be a "reincarnation" of Elijah, but that's definitely not the clear meaning of the association of John with Elijah
3) Those few that rose from the dead and came back to life in Scripture could be considered to have been granted a "second life", though not a reincarnation in the traditional sense.
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Post by rbbailey on Apr 4, 2011 15:58:08 GMT -8
What about people who came before Christ then?
Obviously a question that could be asked for many reasons, but the question might be asked: Did the people who lived before Christ get a second chance?
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Post by Josh on Apr 4, 2011 16:04:59 GMT -8
So, it sounds like you're talking about chances in the "life after death"?
Well, to a universalist, definitely.
And even many with the traditional view of hell argue that
1 Peter 4:5
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
means a special chance to those who were before Christ.
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Post by christopher on Apr 5, 2011 17:36:47 GMT -8
I know that some think that verse is referring to deceased souls receiving the gospel message after Jesus' death and given a chance to repent and believe. But that's a very modern evangelical paradigm IMO and I don't know that we're supposed to understand it that way. That's always seemed strange to me. I mean who in their right mind would reject God to His face post-mortem?
I think it's more likely that the "gospel" has always been made known by God since the fall through various prophesies and such and people have always had the choice to submit to God while living.
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