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Post by Iamscared on Jan 16, 2010 18:36:43 GMT -8
Note: There will be graphic discussion in this thread. I have done terrible things in my past (and I still currently do these things, It's hard to get out of this cycle).
I have always called myself a Christian...but I am not sure if I am one. At approximately the age of 5 or 6 my mom told me to pray a prayer. At that time I was familiar what church was - just not what it was about and what importance it has on people's lives. I didn't know what I was praying at that time, but I obeyed my mom and said the words that she told me to say. Many times after that in my life, and I do mean many, I have prayed this prayer in my life time because I thought I wasn't saved. At my current age I now realize that to be saved, it isn't about the words that you pray, but about the transformation of your heart. The reason I am making this post tonight is because I do not believe I have this transformation of my heart.
At the age of 12 I discovered the pleasures of sex. Not sex with men or women, but with myself. That was really hard to type because I've never told anyone before. It is quite disturbing, I know. I am not gay, but merely a man who has fallen into many trials and temptations. I am still having trouble with getting away from this particular sin, not because I enjoy doing disturbing things with myself, but because it is addicting - just if not more addicting then drugs. I am trying my best to get away from this sin.
At the age of 12 I also fell into another addiction - addiction to technology. I have been addicted to technology (the internet, computers, video games) from age 12 to up to this day as well. I am no longer addicted to video games, but I still have a strong addiction to the other technologies that I mentioned.
Please...I need serious help. I do not want to get counseling because my family does not know of half of the addictions that I currently have. It would be too embarrassing to tell them. I need something inspirational, something to get me out of these addictions and into God.
Am I saved? If I died tonight would I go to heaven? I have asked for forgiveness for my sins in the past - but I have not repented from them. I am trying to hold back the tears while writing this because I have dishonored God so much in my life. If you have anything, I mean anything that is inspirational, and anything that would assure me that I have received salvation...please tell me.
Today I was reading from a website about prophecies that will happen in the end days. Well, I came across this paragraph:
Please focus on this sentence, "Note: God will spew them out. Many church leaders and people that call themselves a Christian and are sure they are saved will not be going to heaven."
I think this sentence is describing me. I call myself a Christian, but I am definitely lukewarm in my faith - I think I am going to hell. Especially the way I am living right now.
Like I've said, I've asked Jesus to come into my heart - I've asked for forgiveness hundreds of times, but I have not repented.
Please, I need answers. I am in need of desperate help. I may have left some things out because I am very nervous typing this and scared, and just totally confused.
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Post by Iamscared on Jan 16, 2010 18:39:38 GMT -8
I forgot to add. I have not repeneted, but I am totally willing to repent. I've tried to repent before but it is so hard because these addictions have taken over my life. I need all the prayer I can get to get out of these trials in my life.
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Post by Josh on Jan 16, 2010 21:03:55 GMT -8
Thanks for having the courage to post this.
John 6:37 comes to mind, where Jesus says, "whoever comes to me I will never drive away"
I don't have much time for a full response right now, but here are some thoughts to start with: the Jesus who told us that we must forgive our brother 70 x 7 (another way of saying without end) is not a hypocrite. He tells us to do so because He and His Father are also willing to do so with their children. Remember you have been paid for with the price of Jesus' blood- that is what has purchased your forgiveness, not your works.
You're right to be convicted by your sin, but Godly sorrow leads to repentence not despair.
I'm curious how you define repentence. It's of course not a one-time thing. It's a daily struggle to die to your sin nature. Sometimes it's a moment-by-moment decision. If you fail, step right back up to the plate and surrender to God once again.
The evidence that we are saved is the Holy Spirit within us. And one of the main things the Holy Spirit does is convict us of sin. If you are feeling convicted, it is evidence that the Holy Spirit is working within you. It's the people who have no more conviction- the ones who don't care about their salvation anymore- that are the only ones who need to worry about being "spewed out"- and, of course, ironically, they won't worry about it because their hearts are hardened.
But take comfort in the fact that your heart isn't hardened. The other role of the Holy Spirit is to remind you of the grace you have been shown and to inspire you to repent based on that. The Holy Spirit only ever uses a guilty conscience to indicate to us that there is still hope. It is the Enemy that takes a guilty conscience and leads us to the conclusion that there is no hope left.
Do you have a church or any brothers or sisters in Christ around you?
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Post by Josh on Jan 16, 2010 21:09:49 GMT -8
Oh, and by the way, I wouldn't put much stock in that website you found that quote from. Of course repentence is important, but heir interpretation of that passage in Revelation is very questionable. It also sounds like they have an elitist ax to grind and are using sweeping generalities to condemn the larger body of Christians.
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Post by Josh on Jan 16, 2010 21:14:42 GMT -8
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Post by michelle on Jan 16, 2010 21:55:08 GMT -8
Like Josh said, thank you for having the courage to post things that you have never shared. I think it is an important first step to reach out to others and confess your sins to them. And I think it shows that God is working on transforming your heart. I guess the way I see it is that everybody has an addiction to something on some level. And we all sin, repeatedly, throughout our lives. You say that you are willing to repent, but haven't yet. Are you afraid to because you believe you will succumb to the same sin? I am going to have to agree with Josh that repentance is an ongoing thing. I can't tell you the number of times I've repented for the same thing. And there have been so many times when God was clearly telling me that He wants something from me and I chose to do something different because I wanted to control my life. I think there are a couple things that are important for you to know. 1) God loves you and knows you and knows your heart. He knows your thoughts before you think them and knows your actions before you do them. And He loves you (and us all) in spite of sin. He sent Jesus to earth so that forgiveness of sin would be as simple as asking for forgiveness. That's it. We just say, God forgive me for ____ and the sin is no longer in the way of a relationship with God. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9 But without that step, sin serves as a barrier for keeping Christ out of our hearts. And if Christ can't get into our hearts, how can there be transformation? 2) YOU ARE NOT ALONE. There are a number of Christians that suffer with addiction, including sexual addiction. Some of them are people in our community that we know on a personal basis. Have you looked into some forums for Christians recovering from sexual addiction? That may be one resource that will help you since you are not at the point that you want to go to counseling. I do think that it is really important that when you decide that working with God to conquer your addiction that you have some type of accountability system. I do not believe we are designed to walk through this sort of thing alone because when we try, our sinful nature can get the best of us. Know that even Paul struggled with doing what he knew he shouldn't. Romans 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. 8:1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
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Post by christopher on Jan 16, 2010 23:54:03 GMT -8
I would add that I'm saddened that your view of God has apparently been shaped by people who think that striking the fear of hell in people's hearts is the way to get them to repent. Some people want to make God out to be this angry and vindictive tyrant that is waiting to zap you if you mess up. That is not the God I know, and it's not the God of the bible. I'm sorry you were given that impression. Jesus came to save people from their sins, not condemn them because of their sins. John 3:17 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. NKJVAs has already been pointed out, no matter how many times you stumble (and we all do), God remains willing and eager to restore you. He's already said He forgives you by sending His Son and he's faithful and just to cleanse you if you simply trust Him to do so (1 John 1:9). Please remember that God is not looking for reasons to condemn you, He's looking for every way possible to save you.
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Post by michelle on Jan 17, 2010 8:26:19 GMT -8
Great points, Chris.
I have one more addition. I was saved 11 years ago. But it wasn't until about 3 years ago that I really felt the transformation in my heart. God was very real and I wholeheartedly believed that Jesus died on the cross for my sins and rose 3 days later. I that way, I believe that I was saved because Scripture tells us "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9 But I still wanted to do things my own way. Then 3 years ago Jesus really took hold of my heart. That's when the transformation began. Thankfully, our salvation is not contingent upon our ability to overcome sin. Otherwise, nobody on the planet could be saved.
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Post by Iamscared on Jan 17, 2010 11:57:41 GMT -8
This is half of the reason that I am scared. I'm not sure if I was saved in the first place because I feel that I have been driven the farthest possible place away from God.
I define repentance as getting away from a particular trouble in your life, and never going back to that paricular trouble or trial. Is that the right definition?
I believe I do feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
Yes, I have both a Church and brothers and sisters in Christ.
It's not that I am afraid, it's just that these addictions are extremely hard to get away from. I do not want to have these addictions anymore, but no matter how many times I tell myself that I still do them again, and I have no clue why. I found that passage in romans fit to what I am going through right now.
The Bible says, "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magical arts, the idolaters and all liars - thier place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur." Revelations 21:8
How can I, or anyone else, be a saved if the Bible tells us that we're going to the fiery lake of burning sulfur (unless it is meaning all non believers who do these things, I'm not sure).
Thanks for the replies.
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Post by carebear on Jan 17, 2010 14:44:26 GMT -8
Hello dear friend, You are an amazing creation of God and He is madly in love with you. His heart is for you. You are the apple of His eye. He calls you his Beloved. There is a website I have found very inspirational with recent testimonies of people who were freed from media addiction, pornography, self-hatred and many other things. If you want to listen to some, the link is: www.ihop.org/Publisher/Article.aspx?ID=1000060205 You'll see a black screen that has a scroll down menu on the right side (it says things like "Saturday evening, Friday evening, etc.") and if you scroll down far enough, you'll see boxes to click to hear testimonies.....some are titled by what they were freed from. I am praying for you. Don't give up. You are going to be set free and you will know without a doubt that you are saved. If you are encouraged by these testimonies, you can hear the full awakening services at the other boxes titled "saturday evening, friday evening, etc." The live webcast is on live wed through sat 4 pm to 10pm pacific time. International House of Prayer University. There are so many people on there being freed from very real, common, painful things. You can be free.
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Post by carebear on Jan 17, 2010 15:01:44 GMT -8
Also, maybe try to focus on developing your self-control because this is one thing that can help eliminate the addiction. Don't focus on the addiction.....just do things to develop your self-control. Like fasting and other techniques. And continue to confess to someone or on the forums if you fall in these areas because confessing is really powerful.
One of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control so maybe it will help you to watch that webcast or other places like that where you can let the Holy Spirit grow and produce the fruit of self-control within you. God wants to help you and He loves you right now.
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Post by Josh on Jan 17, 2010 15:54:32 GMT -8
Repentence, or metanoia in the Greek, means a change of mind and will that one is willing to act on. It isn't a once and for all action. Acts 8:22, 2 Cor. 7:9, 2 Cor. 12:21, Rev. 2:5, and Rev. 3:19 among many other verses speak of the need for Christians (those who have already repented) to repent again. So I would disagree with the "never going back" part of your definition. Since Scripture is clear that Christians can and do sin, and since all sin should be repented of, then of course repentence is something we must do at intervals in our Christian experience.
You may have to repent daily or hourly when in the midst of a particularly pernicious sin. But you must keep getting up.
A relevant quote from C.S. Lewis:
We may, indeed, be sure that perfect chastity [purity]-like perfect charity [love]-will not be attained by any merely human efforts. You must ask for God's help. Even when you have done so, it may seem to you for a long time that no help, or less help than you need, is being given. Never mind. After each failure, ask forgiveness, pick yourself up and try again. Very often what God first helps us towards is not the virtue itself but just this power of always trying again. For however important chastity (or courage, or truthfulness, or any other virtue) may be, this process trains us in habits of the soul which are more important still. It cures our illusions about ourselves and teaches us to depend on God. We learn, on the one hand, that we cannot trust ourselves even in our best moments, and, on the other, that we need not despair even in our worst, for our failures are forgiven. The only fatal thing is to sit down content with anything less than perfection.
This is similar to 1 Cor. 6:9-10
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
The point of these passages is that you can't keep your sin and enter heaven*. You cannot be under any delusion that God wants anything less than to absolutely strip away everything wicked from you and if you trust Him, HE WILL DO IT. The process will not be completed before you face the judgment, but in his judgment He will absolutely complete the job he began in you when you first trusted Him.
*There were some in the early Church who deceived themselves into excusing away their evil behaviors. Paul and John are pointing out that they are dead wrong to expect they can remain as they are in the kingdom of God. But they aren't saying that if a person has done these things, then they are excluded from the Kingdom. That would contradict other things they said about Christians who do sin and that will be forgiven when they confess those sins:
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
The we here is believers, not unbelievers, and Notice the emphasis on all unrighteousness.
Does that make sense?
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Post by Josh on Jan 17, 2010 17:34:56 GMT -8
Also, here's my email address: j@aletheiacf.com
Or feel free and register on the forums (it can be anonymously) and send me a personal message if there are details you'd like to discuss that you can't post here.
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Post by yeshuafreak on Jan 17, 2010 21:13:04 GMT -8
the term "repentance" comes from the hebrew word t'shuvah wich simply means "turning back." religiously it means turning back to God. that is all it is. You can turn your face towrds God as many times as you want, a genuine try. Many people make the word out to be something much more than it really is.
like people do sin. Sin simply means to "miss the mark." When I yell at my mother because I don't want to clean my room, I am actually sinning because I am obviously missing the mark on life. That doesnt mean I am going to hell.
When I read your post I was absoultely amazed. I thought, "Did I post that?" Those two addictions are two that I really really struggle with. Do not give up hope. I am riding this car with you.
As for the first addiction, it is truly hard to stop. It is very very addicting. And i have heard people say "youll stop when you get married."
Bull crap.
the secret to your success in overcoming this addiction is perserverence to be PROACTIVE, not REACTIVE. being reactive is, as the name suggests, reacting to your cravings. When one reacts to something, one becomes the effect (which isnt always bad). However, being proactive, one acts on what is given to him.
Do not try to oppose your addiction- that never works. It has already become strong enough to win every time. Instead, proact on something else. As carebare said, work on self control not by stopping the addiction but by fasting or other techiniques. Perhaps you could try to sit still for a while and concentrate on breathing. Something that helps you.
As for your second addiction, realize what it is so speacial about these internet sites that make you get on so much. For me, it is a social life. I love blogs and forums. But for you, it might be another reason. Find out what in your life is unfulfilled that you are trying to fill with the computer and electronics. Try to then fulfill that unfulfilled desire in a healthy way. this is being proactive.
but what you mainly seem concerned about is the question "am i going to hell." the answer: NO. you are already in it. By that i mean, you are creating hell for yourself by letting the shame grip you so tightly. Shame's only purpose is to lead us to stop our actions, but often times the feeling of shame comes from what society has to say about a thought or an action.
Shame has already done its job with you- it has motivated you to work on your addictions. Now you just need to work on them, and when you stop you will start feeling shame again.
God is a forgiving God. He is an awesome God. He is a benevolent God. He is Love. A loving God would not perform a mass murder by sending millions to billions of people into a lake of sulfur. God is not hitler. Therfore, I am convinced that revelation's descriptions of hell are an allegory just like everything else in it.
if you join, I can PM you my email address-- but if you dont fell comforable joining, dont. Do whatever is best for you in these situations.
Shalom
-john
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Post by Josh on Jan 17, 2010 21:47:02 GMT -8
Just a clarification that the OT term for repentence is Hebrew and the NT term Greek. Wasn't sure what you meant here, yesh. I'll comment on this on another thread: www.aletheia.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=afterlife&thread=2735Regarding masturbation, I might point out that the bible doesn't have a definitive position on the subject. NOTE: the following is my opinion- My personal take is that it is not necessary a sin for a single person. When it is clearly a sin is when it begins to master you, to become addictive, to become controlling, to distort your view of sex, when it is used in conjunction with lustful thoughts or pornography, when it begins to make your life unmanagable, etc. I don't know if you are married or not- I think that has a lot of bearing on this particular issue. But just a reminder that it is lust and being mastered by things that are the primary enemies in this arena.
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Post by yeshuafreak on Jan 18, 2010 12:20:01 GMT -8
i think it can be a healthy thing; doctors prescribe it sometimes, even. However, the problem comes when it controls you and it is used in conjunction with porn, etc.
simply that he will begin to feel convicted again about not working on stopping (that is, if he stops) and therefore will regain the feeling of shame.
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Post by marcus on Jan 18, 2010 15:07:32 GMT -8
This is an interesting thread, not because it deals with repentance, masturbation, and guilt, but because it speaks to a larger issue that often goes unnoticed in theological and emotional discussions: God's intelligence.
God is smart. Really, really smart. And insightful. And He considers all the angles. He's the perfect judge; fair, strict, yet forgiving. We need to trust Him.
But we don't. We honestly believe in lose/lose scenarios. For instance, masturbation is a tricky lose/lose for a single heterosexual man. See, if you don't force your body to have an orgasm, and therefore avoid the sinful thoughts and guilt that accompanies masturbating, you will eventually have a nocturnal emission accompanied by a fantasy dream (and probably struggle with being hormonally charged until that happens). If you cave in and take care of the issue yourself, you have to think about something sexual to allow the body to orgasm (men do, at least) and you have one of two options: lust over a real person (adultery), or avoid that by inventing a pretend fantasy girl (objectification of women).
So your screwed either way, right? God is going to turn His back from your sin either way, and you're going to be left apologizing for the same sin over and over and over again, aren't you?
No. Because God is smart. I promise you, God understands lose/lose scenarios and knows how to handle them (not with fiery hell, I assure you). It's just like a parent understands when his or her child is given more than they can handle. Say, for instance, a ten year old boy finds pornography at his buddy's house, and feels bad for looking at it. Perhaps the boy should feel bad. But should the parent be angry with or disappointed in the child? I sure hope not. That level of temptation is more than a ten year old can be expected to handle, and the parent needs to allow for that. Developmentally, it would be unfair for a parent to expect a child to have that amount of self-control. A good parent would put his arm around the child, tell them that they should not feel shamed, and ask them "Do you see now why pornography is a distorted vision of something beautiful? Do you understand why it is important to avoid it?"
Sin is not something that hurts God. It is something that God despises because it hurts us, His children, who He loves. And in regards to the sin that this thread addresses, we have to assume that God (who is really, really smart and insightful) understands the sexual dilemma facing a single person. And because God has not yet given us a perfect way of handling that dilemma, we have to just trust Him to be graceful and understanding, which is really difficult to do in the aftermath of a hormonal high and low that accompanies an orgasm. Just remember, God created hormones and orgasms and placed those systems in single people. He gets it. He's sympathetic to the issue (if Jesus was sympathetic to the soldiers pounding nails into his wrists, I'm pretty sure this one is a sure thing).
Don't obsess, and don't be ashamed. God made you a sexual person and if you're avoiding pornography (certainly and intuitively harmful) and not letting it control your life (not obsessively acting out), I wouldn't worry too much about the only remaining dilemma (what to think about during the act) since there is no clear solution. Do your best, keep a mindset that sexuality is a good thing, that sexual beauty is God's creation, and that acknowledging God's creation with your thoughts may just be a strange form of praise. Or something. Who knows but God?
The thing is, most men who struggle with sexual sin are really just misplacing sin from another area of life. Sexual sin is usually a symptom anyway, not the actual problem, right? Men rarely masturbate because they physiologically have to. Usually it's a drug, some form of escape from loneliness or depression or anxiety. It's the good kid drug (along with food). So address those areas first, become healthy in other realms of life, because I'll bet that the sexual stuff will work itself out once that occurs.
To the author of the first post: put down your Bible. You're oversaturating yourself with Scripture that does not speak to what you are dealing with. Someone who struggles with shame will always find those passages that make them fear God's wrath, while skipping all of the passages that should give you confidence that God is trustworthy and good and gracious when He judges, and even errs to the side of forgiveness and mercy (read Jonah if you have to read something).
Boy we need to get the Bible out of the hands of individuals and place it instead in the center of a community of believers as it was intended.
Freaking Gutenberg.
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