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Post by Josh on Feb 10, 2007 14:10:25 GMT -8
Judgmental?
Some of this label we’ve acquired is, unfortunately, well deserved. When Christians fire from the hip on issues instead of seeking a well-nuanced Biblical view, perhaps these labels apply. But another problem is that religion has been so relegated to the realm of “subjective, private experience” that when it tries to speak to what it holds to be objective truth, it is perceived as “narrow-minded and judgmental”.
It’s interesting how often one hears people complain that others are judgmental in our culture. But, really, do we want people who lack judgment, people afraid to discern right from wrong? We need to clarify our terms better as a people (I guess I’m talking about Americans in general now), or we’ll be paying the consequences soon (we already are).
Love and compassion should be shown to all, and respect for free will, but certainly that can’t be a blank check to hold all opinions equal or respect every patently evil notion running rampant in society.
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Post by Josh on May 2, 2010 20:44:09 GMT -8
An important question for our generation of Christ followers: what exactly does the bible teach about "judging"?
The following is a list of some of the key verses on judging. You'll notice that most of them fit the theme of "don't judge", but a few (highlighted in blue) seem to indicate that we should make judgments regarding other people or their actions.
A further question would then be, what does judging actually mean? Does anyone have a good working definition? Is there a separate definition for the kind of judging we shouldn't be doing as opposed to the kind we should be doing?
And.... is rebuking or addressing other's sin "judging"? Because there are tons of New Testament passages that encourage us to to so (I'll include some of them in red at the end of the list)
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Post by Josh on May 2, 2010 21:06:30 GMT -8
Matthew 7:1-5 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Luke 6:37 37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Romans 14:1-13 1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written: " 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' " 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.
1 Cor. 4:3-5 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
1 Cor. 5:1-5 1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
1 Cor. 5:12-13 12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
1 Cor. 6:3 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
James 4:11-12 11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
1 Tim 5:19-20 19Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.20Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.
1 Timothy 1:13 Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith.
Titus 2:15 These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
Galatians 6:1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.
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Post by Kirby on May 3, 2010 11:19:25 GMT -8
There is a huge distinction between judgement and rebuking. For me, an example of judgement would be: "EWWWW. Jennifer Knapp is gay, I don't know if I can listen to her music anymore." That contrived response illicits a response of "I'm better than her."
Rebuking would be more along the lines of: "Jennifer, I am concerned because you are openly sinning, and this is contrary to what God wants for our lives. Can I help you?"
The latter is done in love, and displays genuine concern. The former is selfish and judgmental.
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Post by christopher on May 3, 2010 15:03:50 GMT -8
Those are great points Kirby. But wouldn't you agree that rebuking has an element of judgment in it also? Maybe not the same negative way we typically use it. But doesn't rebuking start with the judgment that something is not right?
Technically, even trust and faith are judgments. We have trust and faith only when we judge a person trustworthy or faithful. Unless of course it's blind faith.
I don't think its always a bad thing to "judge", only the manner in which we judge.
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Post by Josh on May 3, 2010 16:11:43 GMT -8
So, if not all judging is wrong, what kind is?
Three criteria of judgment I'd put forward:
1) Judgment that implies we're better than the person we're judging (see Galatians 6:3-5 for a cool verse related to this)
2) Hypocritical judgment- an inability to acknowledge our own sin when adressing others
3) Insensitive or overly harsh (for the circumstance) criticism
Any more to add?
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Post by Kirby on May 3, 2010 16:18:09 GMT -8
I agree.
I see what you are saying, but it is a little semantical. For me, when I hear "judging" I think of the negative aspects. When outsiders say Christians are "judgemental" they are thinking about the negative as well, AND they will not understand the scriptural basis of rebuking at first, so that will SEEM judgemental as well.
My problem is that I don't want to be rebuked. I don't need anyone to remind me of the sin in my life...I chose to do it despite knowing that it may not be good for me. You all may not know that until 7 weeks ago, I smoked cigarettes, about a pack a day. (I quit, and am smoke free 7 weeks!!) I first started smoking when I was 20 or so, knowing full well the potential health risks, knowing it would make my family unhappy, and knowing it would isolate me from some of my friends. I did it anyway. I utilized my free will to make a choice, albeit a bad one. There was very little you could tell me about why I shouldn't smoke. That is where the judgement came in...some people just wouldn't stop harassing me about it. Some even stopped hanging out with me, even though I never smoked in their presence. If I am "unrepentant" while smoking, because I made a conscious choice to do it despite of my knowledge, why the continued "rebukes"? People chose to stop loving me because I did not conform to their idea of righteousness. That is the danger in making judgements, and, unfortunately, that is a perception that exists: If I do not choose to make changes in my behavior, will that person (community, church, group, etc.) love me anyway?
Without love and understanding, our words (whether we feel them to be "rebukes" or "positive judging") are just clashing cymbals.
There is a fine line between teh negative and positive attributes of judging. The tragedy
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Post by Josh on May 3, 2010 17:53:50 GMT -8
Absolutely agreed, especially on that last sentence. That's why I think it is super important for Christians to understand this topic inside and out, biblically . We should all be able to explain the difference between a loving rebuke and Godless judgmentalism, and, of course, be able to demonstrate it. Chris, I think I'd like to take the "judgmental" unChristian lesson as well as the "sheltered" one, if that's okay! This one is very important to me, and I have often found myself thinking about it.
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Post by christopher on May 3, 2010 18:32:41 GMT -8
Kirby wrote: Congratulations!! I'm sorry you were treated like that. Was that by Christians? I've heard Christians refer to smoking as a sin, but they're mistaken. Although there may be good reasons not to smoke, there is certainly nothing in scripture that condemns it. That's another one of those "new laws" that Christians often create without justification.
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Post by Josh on May 3, 2010 18:54:03 GMT -8
Well, smoking can be a sin if not done in good conscience, right?
On another note: how difficult was it for you to quit, Kirby?
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Post by robin on May 4, 2010 6:36:40 GMT -8
Perhaps the reason people's conscience is bothered is because the were told (incorrectly) that smoking is a sin.
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Post by Kirby on May 4, 2010 10:07:40 GMT -8
After an ER visit due to extreme highblood pressure, and the magic Chantix pill, it was not hard at all. Plus my parents have been praying for years. Yes. Smoking in and of itself is not a sin, but, as with almost anything, it can become an idol.
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Post by Josh on May 4, 2010 21:25:56 GMT -8
Or maybe... just maybe... because IT'S KILLING THEM You know I smoke a pipe occasionally, but I have to say, after watching my grandpa die of lung cancer, it just seems ultra clear to me that it's no good to smoke cigs on a regular basis.
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Post by Josh on Nov 1, 2010 19:25:39 GMT -8
The following posts were originally from another thread that was topically related, so they've been merged with this thread. You may notice some redundancy.
I'm going to do the next UnChristian teaching on this subject.
A question: what's the difference between right judgment and the kind of judgment Christ forbids? Are you able to explain the difference?
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Post by robin on Nov 2, 2010 8:14:58 GMT -8
Well said.
It may be more of a question of, who do we judge.
1 Corinthians5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
I am expected to walk in faith and be obedient to my Lord, and if I neglect my duties, it is the right of my fellow Christians to pass judgment on my actions. They only have that right because I have made myself subject to that standard. I should have no reasonable expectations that those outside the church should act according to my beliefs. The only exception I can think of is when innocent people are put at risk by the actions of another person. At the point it is my duty to protect the innocent person regardless of their religious beliefs.
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Post by Josh on Nov 3, 2010 20:39:13 GMT -8
That's an important distinction, but I think it's also important to differentiate between judging someone's worthiness/standing before God and judging the morality of someone's actions.
Judging someone's worthiness or their ultimate standing before God is something we are to avoid. A better word for this might be condemning.
When Jesus says we are not to judge, it is condemnation of others and hypocritical correction that he's forbidding:
Luke 6:36-37 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Matthew 7:1-4 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
He is clearly not saying that we should not judge whether a person's actions are right or wrong, as he goes right on to say in verse 5:
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
A better word for this "righteous judgment" is probably discernment or constructive correction.
It is this kind of judgment that we are encouraged to have by Jesus in Luke 12:57 and in John 7:24 where he says:
Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.
There is another kind of judgment forbidden in Scripture and that is judging someone on a subjective matter of conscience (as in Romans 14 or Colossians 2).
In summary, only having one term ("judge") for all these different contexts makes this confusing. In the modern setting I think it might be best to speak simply of avoiding condemnation and hypocrisy and stressing the importance of correction and discernment.
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Post by Kirby on Nov 4, 2010 9:19:45 GMT -8
I appreciate this distinction. One is done in selfish pride and the other done in love. Big difference.
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