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Post by christopher on Jul 19, 2010 21:37:51 GMT -8
Well, unfortunately you'll never know, the recorder ran out of space. I don't know how much of the discussion made it on the tape. As far as what did we do? We talked a bit, witnessed the innocence robbing poison of hate, and the reconciling power of an apology. I'm going to recommend that we get "Lord, save us from your followers" for our church library. ;D
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Post by Josh on Jul 20, 2010 14:58:45 GMT -8
Bummer. I deleted a few files to make some space, but I guess I should have deleted more. You can delete any of the files on there- they're all on my computer- so we can record Robin's teaching next Sunday.
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Post by Josh on Aug 2, 2010 11:44:46 GMT -8
I listened to the clip and really enjoyed it. It was, actually 54 minutes long , but you're right, it cuts out right when it's really getting into a good debate/ discussion.
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Post by Josh on Aug 2, 2010 14:58:04 GMT -8
I'm currently reading "The Gay Gospel?" by Joe Dallas. I'm only a little ways into it but so far I really recommend it. His personal experience on both sides of this issue makes him an important source to consider. I got it for the Aletheia library if anyone wants to read it.
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Post by Kirby on Aug 6, 2012 10:58:50 GMT -8
The recent Chick-Fil-A stuff has brought this issue back to life a bit... just wanted to share an interesting perspective and hear thoughts on it: biblethumpingliberal.com/2012/08/06/about-christians-bigotry-and-homosexual-marriage-dear-sherree/Some of the semantics we discussed at the beginning of this thread are addressed here, the definition of "bigotry" etc. Some quotes that resonated with me: The blogger also has some interesting views on biblical freedom...perhaps another discussion.
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Post by christopher on Aug 6, 2012 14:43:03 GMT -8
I must've missed it, what is the recent Chic-Fil-A stuff?
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shirley
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 114
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Post by shirley on Aug 6, 2012 16:06:48 GMT -8
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Post by Josh on Aug 7, 2012 9:42:49 GMT -8
Thanks, shirley. I hope to read up on that. I've already heard so much conflicting hearsay on this.
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Post by christopher on Aug 7, 2012 21:19:11 GMT -8
I can agree with the blogger on some points, like not using politics to impose the moral will of one group over another. I personally don't think the government should be in the marriage business at all. And I also think that many Christians unfortunately concern themselves with Caesars' kingdom far more than they do Jesus'. However, I think he unfairly casts the "bigot" net far wider than he should. Just because Christians affirm their personal beliefs that certain behaviors are not consistent with God's revealed will (i.e. sin), that doesn't make them evil bigots, intolerant, or homophobic. It just makes them faithful and true to their conscience which is a virtue. I think Both sides need to try to see how they look from the others' point of view IMO. I also think he's twisting the "all things are lawful" scripture a bit...but that's another conversation. Kirby, I'd like to hear what you would hope ultimately comes out of this on-going conversation (I'm talking universally, not just this thread)
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Post by Kirby on Aug 7, 2012 22:07:39 GMT -8
christopher wrote:
You answered your own question when you wrote
That is my goal with just about anything I post or read here: I want to hear other's views so I can understand them. I really want to find common ground. Therein lies where we can relate, create authentic dialog leading to relationships. Especially in an election year like this one, I am finding it more and more pointless to debate, and more and more refreshing to lovingly discuss. I am less concerned with convincing anyone to join me in my worldview, and more interested in walking hand in hand despite an even contrary worldview.
I shared this blog not to rehash the Chick-Fil-A debate, but simply because here was someone else calling Christians (or some Christians, namely those opposed to marriage equality) bigoted or homophobic.
This is so hard for me to understand. Restricting rights to others that I enjoy because of my biology or preference or choice or whatever is unconscionable to me. Hopefully you can see how I see that as less than virtuous. What do you mean by conscience? Because if our convictions are different, we are back at square one.
Me too.
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Post by christopher on Aug 8, 2012 6:39:36 GMT -8
Hi Kirby,
you wrote:
What I mean is living and standing for what you sincerely believe*. The author of the blog even said something to that effect.
I may not always agree with what others believe, but I do respect the courage of those who stand up for it when it's unpopular to do so. That includes gays and lesbians that fight for their cause, and Christians that oppose the cause.
When we say we're "restricting rights", it implies that the matter of what is a "right" has been settled. But I think that is where the debate is still taking place. By what standard can we say something is a "right"? That's the question. For those that believe in God, "rights" are determined by Him alone.
But where I part company with the majority of my Christian brothers is when they try to impose Kingdom values on those outside the Kingdom. Appealing to Caesar to enforce God's will is not only an insult to God (IMO), it's also counterproductive to the growth of the God's kingdom. I think it has the exact opposite effect that Christians intend it to have.
It is very interesting though that this issue always comes up in an election year. Why do you think that is? And to who's advantage do you think it is to bring it up?
*I would not say it's a virtue to stand for what one obstinately "believes" (which is not belief at all). Suppressing the truth is not a virtue.
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Post by Josh on Aug 8, 2012 21:25:22 GMT -8
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Post by christopher on Aug 9, 2012 7:00:55 GMT -8
Ok, I'll tackle that when I get a chance.
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