Haiti and Pat Robertson

[rbbailey]

Robertson just keeps putting his foot in it and smearing it all over the Christian reputation. He exemplifies why non-Christians think people like me are racist and hateful.

People like him actually, literally, hurt my reputation. I know, I'm not really supposed to be worried about my reputation, but my reputation is connected with Christ's. I know, I know.... it's just hard when I'm at work and I hear that non-Christians are talking about how people like me are really just hypocrites and... Basically, I feel like my work to place myself into people's lives so they can see what being a Christian is actually like has been set back several years today.

Thanks, Pat.

Now lets look at what he said, and why it's so bad. It's bad because it doesn't matter if it is true or not. Let's imagine that it is true. Lets imagine some group of Haitians, years ago, did make a pact with the devil. Let's imagine there is some sort of devilish curse.

There is a lot here, but let's just focus on this: So what? Even if it is 100% historically and spiritually true. So what? What does that have to do with our response to the situation? What does that have to do with how we as Christians look at and respond to those people? Nothing. In fact, if anything, it should mean that we reach out to them with even more love and forgiveness than we normally would. We should be even more willing to expose them to grace.

Rant off.

[Josh]

Haven't heard about this yet. What exactly did he say?

[Kirby]

He said that the tragedy in Haiti was their own fault, due to a pact they made with the devil many years ago to save them from the French. I am not making this up.

[carebear]

www.cbn.com/about/pressrelease_patrobertson_haiti.aspx I thought this clarified the issue a bit. I didn't see CBN today, but I doubt he said those words quoted above verbatim. I do think it was the wrong time to bring up the topic though.....but again I would want to see the episode to hear his words in the context of the conversation.

[rbbailey]

When I posted this, I was hot and angry, and I'm not sorry for it other than to say that my post really was badly written.

Here is what I later wrote to a non-Christian socialist teacher good friend of mine:

Do you know how weary I am of having my reputation tarnished by the actions of others?

Pat Robertson is a curse on Christianity. Why would the devil need a pact with the unsaved souls of Haiti when he has Pat Robertson to work his smear campaigns for him?

I could say more about Robertson's kind, but Jesus already covered it pretty well: How will you make it into heaven? For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged. How will you escape the judgment of hell? Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

Just thought I'd clarify.

[krhagan19]

Why won't Pat Robinson just hurry up and Die. Perhaps it is because God has no plans on calling him "Home to heaven" and Satan is far to pleased with the work Patty boy is doing for HIS KINGDOM here on earth. Just a thought.

[christopher]

On the other hand....I don't believe wishing death on someone is the most Christ-like thing to do either.

Pat Robertson is without a doubt one of the most unfortunate and embarrassing public figures in Christianity. The damage done by many of his reckless comments will indeed take much time for the world to get past.

But it can also serve as a really good opportunity to contrast poor representatives of the faith (such as our good Mr. Robertson) with Jesus. Some years ago, someone at work once asked me if I agreed with what Pat Robertson said the other day. I responded that I was unaware of what he had said, but that it was highly unlikely that I agreed with him. The door was opened at that point for some real respectful and engaging dialogue from there on out.

I think intelligent people realize that Christians can be stereotyped just as much as any other peculiar group can.

[carebear]

I don't remember having any huge problem with pat robertson (although I haven't watched him a whole lot except for maybe a few months last year). The anger towards him is palpable here....yikes! Why is Pat so unfortunate, embarrassing and a curse? The curse part seems like a particular huge claim...?

[rbbailey]

Because he is becoming a constant lightning rod for anti-Christian sentiment in this nation. He is supposedly a leader of the Christian Right, but really, all he does is give the Christians and the Right a bad name. I cannot think of anything he has done or said in the past 4-8 years that has come across in a positive way.

Many of my non-Christian friends associate him with what it means to be a Christian, and I've worked hard to attempt to separate myself and my reputation from him these past several years.

The guy I wrote the email to responded, thank God, saying that he did not associate me with the likes of Roberts: "I would never, not in a million years, equate you with the likes of Pat Robertson or any of his ilk." And he went on to say that he considers me, "an actual human being," as opposed to Roberts. The non-Christian community really does pay attention to what people like Roberts say. They also pay attention to what normal people like you and me actually do.

If a non-Christian has no one in their life to give a positive example, all they have to go on is the "Christian" example of Roberts. That is why I'm so angry at him.

Basically, he needs to retire and disappear. Christians need to really step away from him and just do the quiet work of the Kingdom we are called to do without having people like him constantly giving us a bad name.

[Josh]

I don't agree with kevin's harsh approach; if we rebuke we should do it in love.

That said, the reason Robertson's comments are unfortunate, embarrassing, and irresponsible is that he has a penchant for over-simplifying the causes of tragedy (this is not the first time he has said something like this) He's the kind who always has to find someone particular to blame when disaster strikes. Jesus challenged some of his followers to abandon this kind of over simplification:

Luke 13:1-5

Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

[krhagan19]

Pat Robinson is supposed to be a Christian pastor. John Stewart on the daily show showed his little rant about the urban legend that Haitians made a compact with Satan then he read several Bible verses from Psalms and Proverbs about Gods protecting and his will never to forsake someone in peril. I find it disgusting that a man who claims to be a Bible Scholar. Who has a Holy Book full of comfort for those in distress, his only thoughts on this tragedy is not bringing more of the people of Haiti to Jesus, but instead to mock their misfortune based on a urban legend that their leaders made a deal with the Devil. Pat Robinson is more reprehensible than ever the so called Church of Satan. The Church of Satan pitches crap at Christianity all of the time but they reveal their own moral abruptness through their teachings. Pat Robinson on the other hand is a wolf in sheep's clothing. He spread hatred and lies against others in the name of Christ. I would am honestly less offended by some uneducated ruffian urinating on a bible and burning it, than I am by a man who is an international "spokesman" for the kingdom of God, who has no compassion or mercy for thousands of people who have suffered death, and millions who are now starving. I believe in Salvation by faith, and if Pat Robinson truly does have faith, which I doubt, then he is one of the greatest beneficiaries of Christs mercy because if anyone has ever deserved hellfire for their attempts to Destroy or distort the message of our savior. It is Patty boy!

[Josh]

kevin,

We must remember, though, that there are examples in the Bible of times when God did bring or allow a disaster to fall upon a country because of their national sin. And innocent people died in the mix.

It's not that tragedies aren't ever caused by sin- it's just that we are not to make our won assumptions about them.

Personally, I believe that it is very rare that a tragedy such as this is directly caused by some particular sin of a segment of the population. To tritely attribute something like this to some particular sin is irresponsible and sends the wrong message.

The message Christians should be sending is twofold:

1) We are here to help; we are here to suffer with you
2) Life is short; we all die; we're all sinners; we all need to repent

[michelle]

Jan 14, 2010 17:10:20 GMT -8 @carebear said:

www.cbn.com/about/pressrelease_patrobertson_haiti.aspx I thought this clarified the issue a bit. I didn't see CBN today, but I doubt he said those words quoted above verbatim. I do think it was the wrong time to bring up the topic though.....but again I would want to see the episode to hear his words in the context of the conversation.

Carrie, here is what he said verbatim.

"Something happened a long time ago in Haiti and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heal of the French. Uh, you know, Napoleon III or whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, 'We will serve you if you'll get us free from the French.' True story. And so the devil said, 'Ok, it's a deal'. And they kicked the French out of, you know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since they have been cursed by one thing after the other, desperately poor."

[michelle]

Jan 14, 2010 20:33:27 GMT -8 krhagan19 said:

his only thoughts on this tragedy is not bringing more of the people of Haiti to Jesus, but instead to mock their misfortune based on a urban legend that their leaders made a deal with the Devil.

Actually, he did say that we should be praying for a great turning to God for the country.

[carebear]

Thanks Michelle.

I don't think Pat should ever assume he knows why an earthquake happens or why a people group goes through devastation. I do think in life some sins can cause real physical/mental/etc. consequences and curses are real, but I would never say anything about a certain person or people group in this regard unless I was super totally positive the Holy Spirit told me to.

[Josh]

Maybe Pat felt that the Holy Spirit was indicating that to him.

How can we know if he was right or wrong? Especially considering our historical tendency to mis-hear the voice of God.

[Margot]

Jan 15, 2010 12:49:15 GMT -8 Josh said:

Maybe Pat felt that the Holy Spirit was indicating that to him.

How can we know if he was right or wrong? Especially considering our historical tendency to mis-hear the voice of God.

Interesting thought.

My biggest gripe against Pat is that one moment he says stuff like what has been quoted and the next moment he says scriptural stuff that I know is true and am in total agreement with.

Grrrrr.

Recently when I was sick, I tuned in for a little dose of the 700 Club--just to make sure I was still reading Pat correctly. A lot of his prayers for people and his summation of scriptures were spot on----and then we got to hear some of his commentary on situations: Yikes!!!!!! I picture God throwing a butterfly net over his head and dragging him off to somewhere where he won't hurt anybody...

Intersting side note: I was travelling when the whole Haiti story broke, and I picked up a copy of USA Today in the airport. In a sidebar summation of the country of Haiti they noted, (and I'm paraphrasing here,) 80% of the residents described themselves as Roman Catholics, around 10% as Protestants, and a small percentage described themselves as "other." The next line said "approximately half of the residents of Haiti practice voodoo."

Half?? I've always heard high numbers on this before, but had never heard half.I thought it was intersting that a mainstream rag like USA Today tossed that in so casually.