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Post by Josh on Apr 6, 2010 9:15:16 GMT -8
Who said it didn't cause me a headache???
That's one of the most difficult portions of the Exodus narrative.
Who could be comfortable with a passage like that that reveals, as Lewis stressed, that God is not a "tame lion"?
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Post by Josh on Apr 6, 2010 9:17:37 GMT -8
Intesting connection!
Also, yeah, the alternate reality sunken island does poise thorny questions about a loose smokie.... I'm scratching my head on that one.
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Post by michelle on Apr 6, 2010 9:20:51 GMT -8
The angel of the Lord, which I believe is the pre-incarnate Jesus, of the OT was indeed a fierce warrior, and also the Jesus of the book of Revelation is fierce as well. Jesus is, of course, not only the Lamb that was slain but the Lion of Judah as well. Oh brother...  So you are basically saying that Jesus would beat up people and "waterboard them" in order to get his message through without contradicting his own teachings? Give me a break!  What is really hard to swallow is that God being about to kill someone for not circumcising doesn't cause you a terrible headache. Jacob, just like God, isn't "refusing to communicate". He's just refusing to overwhelm. I see. That's why Jacob gives Richard a good bashing as a starting point for their relation. As I said, communicating doesn't equal overwhelming. If God talked to me, he would still have to convinvce me that he is actually a being worth loving and worshipping and not merely a jealous, ill-tempered sadist. I think that Kirby is right: Jesus is Jesus and Jacob is Jacob. The figure Jacob is certainly Jesus-inspired, but he probably isn't supposed to be a 1:1 allegory. Maybe I'm wrong. But there is too much One question nobody picked up yet is why the alternate reality isn't like hell even though with the island being sunk, Smokie must be on the lose. Another thing that occured to me: When Smokie said to Jacob he would kill all possible candidates, could that be seen as a link to the Jewish king (Herodes?) who would kill all the newborn boys because of the prophecy that one of them would be the king of kings? I only vaguely remember that chapter and I'm too lazy to look it up. But maybe that's the reason why newborn babies or their mothers (can't remember either) die on the island?? So does this mean you are going to finish out the series, Mo? Or are you still giving up? |
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Post by Kirby on Apr 6, 2010 9:58:00 GMT -8
A sunken island does not neccesarily mean a loose smokie. Smokie may have died in the explosion. Or he could still be alive, held there by Jacob, who also had not yet been killed in 1977 when the bomb went off. Or perhaps the nuclear explosion caused a space-time shift into an alternate reality where Smokie never or no longer exists. What IS in the island reality is not necessarily what IS in the flash sideways. We know this by the minor differences in the Losties lives in the alternate reality that we have seen (Jack's son, Sun and Jin not being married, Ben Linus as a high school teacher, etc.)
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Post by rbbailey on Apr 7, 2010 7:10:00 GMT -8
So, am I right in suggesting that Desmond's role in this is now that he will be able to jump back and forth from one story line to the other, thereby fixing the problem with the alternate reality -- that they are still all destined to do what it is they are supposed to do, but they can't really do it unless they are on the island?
BUT! Why did he go with Sayid so willingly? Was he confused? Is he now infiltrating the other side? Is he really on the other side?
Desmond's ability to be killed without being killed, and thus go between worlds to accomplish the mission also sets him up as a type of Christ figure.
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Post by michelle on Apr 7, 2010 9:13:15 GMT -8
So, am I right in suggesting that Desmond's role in this is now that he will be able to jump back and forth from one story line to the other, thereby fixing the problem with the alternate reality -- that they are still all destined to do what it is they are supposed to do, but they can't really do it unless they are on the island? BUT! Why did he go with Sayid so willingly? Was he confused? Is he now infiltrating the other side? Is he really on the other side? Desmond's ability to be killed without being killed, and thus go between worlds to accomplish the mission also sets him up as a type of Christ figure. Or does he understand that he has to make a sacrifice and know that is his destiny. Jesus came to save the lost. The Jack/Hurley/Richard camp is not lost. The Smokie/Sayid/Claire camp is. Is Desmond there to try to bring them back to the good side? Desmond has always been the "constant" between the past/present/future for the losties and Farraday. Kind of the was and is and is to come. |
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Post by Josh on Apr 7, 2010 12:07:59 GMT -8
Mo, did this episode rekindle your interest?
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Post by michelle on Apr 7, 2010 12:27:29 GMT -8
I think that Desmond is going to be key in sinking the island (and keeping smokie locked up) and that he will have to sacrifice his life (or relationship with Penny) in order to do so.
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Post by rbbailey on Apr 7, 2010 19:18:25 GMT -8
I think that Desmond is going to be key in sinking the island (and keeping smokie locked up) and that he will have to sacrifice his life (or relationship with Penny) in order to do so. I like your idea of him going to the bad side to save those who are still good there -- like maybe Sayid, Kate, etc... Also, Penny's name.... Milton, Penny Milton.... Hummmmmmmm..... Maybe you're right about the sacrifice being his... PARADISE... with Penny is... LOST. |
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Post by michelle on Apr 7, 2010 20:23:16 GMT -8
I think that Desmond is going to be key in sinking the island (and keeping smokie locked up) and that he will have to sacrifice his life (or relationship with Penny) in order to do so. I like your idea of him going to the bad side to save those who are still good there -- like maybe Sayid, Kate, etc... Also, Penny's name.... Milton, Penny Milton.... Hummmmmmmm..... Maybe you're right about the sacrifice being his... PARADISE... with Penny is... LOST. Ooh, I didn't even connect the Paradise Lost thing. Nice one!! |
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Post by moritz on Apr 8, 2010 10:36:51 GMT -8
Who could be comfortable with a passage like that that reveals, as Lewis stressed, that God is not a "tame lion"? I don’t have a problem with God being a lion, as long as this lion has his priorities in order. A sunken island does not neccesarily mean a loose smokie. Smokie may have died in the explosion. Or he could still be alive, held there by Jacob, who also had not yet been killed in 1977 when the bomb went off. Or perhaps the nuclear explosion caused a space-time shift into an alternate reality where Smokie never or no longer exists. What IS in the island reality is not necessarily what IS in the flash sideways. We know this by the minor differences in the Losties lives in the alternate reality that we have seen (Jack's son, Sun and Jin not being married, Ben Linus as a high school teacher, etc.) Smokie not being on the loose despite the island being sunk seems like a stretch to me. Sure, there are ways to arrange this but the sunken island symbolizes the cork removed in my opinion. The nuke wouldn't kill Smokie if he is the devil. And even if he isn't the devil we have reasons to believe he would survive such a blow since he also survived Sayids sword without a scratch. Since the nuke went off in the seventies only the events after that were affected, hence it's reasonable to argue that Smokie has been on the island only too willing to escape. Either way, I still need a plausible explanation for this. Either Smokie isn't what Jacob says he is or there is a reason why he isn't on the loose. But they can't leave it like that. So does this mean you are going to finish out the series, Mo? Or are you still giving up? You shall never question my lostaholicalism again. ;D Mo, did this episode rekindle your interest? No. Okay, yes. ;D BUT! Why did he go with Sayid so willingly? he had this "I-know-something-you-don't-know"-smile on his face. My guess would be: he knows what he's doing (and I don't believe for a second he's going to team up with the devil). Now a couple of random thoughts on the episode: When Farrady says he already blew the atomic bomb, he probably referred to the nuke on the island I would guess. The "Paradise Lost" reference could support the theory that the island indeed is hell. It could also "merely" be one of the many pieces that inspired the writers. The two mummies that appeared in season one (and which John Locke called Adam and Eve) and which reappeared a couple of episodes ago (as if to remind us of their existence)… are they Desmond and Penny? |
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Post by michelle on Apr 8, 2010 11:17:33 GMT -8
You shall never again question my lostaholicalism again. ;D Welcome back!  The two mummies that appeared in season one (and which John Locke called Adam and Eve) and which reappeared a couple of episodes ago (as if to remind us of their existence)… are they Desmond and Penny? Interesting... |
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Post by moritz on Apr 8, 2010 11:27:43 GMT -8
Welcome back! That doesn't mean I got over the Richard-disappointment and the cheesy good vs. evil simplification though.   |
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Post by michelle on Apr 8, 2010 12:55:38 GMT -8
Welcome back! That doesn't mean I got over the Richard-disappointment and the cheesy good vs. evil simplification though. That's ok. We will have our episodes and plot lines we dislike. I'm just glad you are going to ride it out to the end. |
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Post by Josh on Apr 8, 2010 20:13:42 GMT -8
Whoa dude. You're blowing my mind!  Oh, and could someone please tell me how a nuclear explosion would send an island to the bottom of the ocean with some parts of buildings still intact?  |
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Post by Kirby on Apr 9, 2010 9:16:00 GMT -8
I will explain this to you, as soon as you explain to me how people can time jump, how Richard is immortal, what exactly the Dharma Initiative is, and why Hurley didn't seem to lose weight after being marooned for many months. It's a TV show...it doesn't have to be realistic. |
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Post by michelle on Apr 9, 2010 9:52:21 GMT -8
Because Michael J. Fox and Christopher Lloyd opened up the world of time travel.
There is something special in the eye liner.
Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications - the objective of the Dharma Initiative was to alter any of the six factors of the Valenzetti Equation, an equation which "predicts the exact number of years and months until humanity extinguishes itself," to allow humans to exist for longer by changing their doomsday. These factors are represented as numbers in the Valenzetti Equation and are also the numbers frequently mentioned in the show: 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42.[4]
I think it's because of the peanut butter and ranch dressing that he was hoarding the first 3 months.
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