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Post by Josh on Sept 19, 2008 11:10:18 GMT -8
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Post by Josh on Jun 27, 2010 16:55:29 GMT -8
The subject of fatalism (which overlaps quite a bit with determinism) is seriously considered by both sociologists and educators as having a potentially negative effect on academic, social, and economic success among "lower classes". It's precisely the lowest classes that are hit most hardest by fatalistic views of reality. I agree with you that many folks aren't consciously aware that they hold this philosophy, but that doesn't mean that they don't hold it subconsciously and that it doesn't affect their outlook greatly. Here's one article on fatalism among Mexican-American girls: www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V5W-4378SY8-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d59890f48f6f6d5581528b494317212aIn education, a student's perception of their locus of control (what they perceive have control over) is a dominant factor of their success. Though there are ways to attempt to motivate "high fatalists", many researchers recognize such ideas as obstacles in education and advancement. Unfortunately, one can't access a lot of this material on the web, but check out the last paragraph in this abstract: www.jstor.org/pss/3485195Anyway, I hear about this pretty regularly in education circles- namely that the students who see their choices as real and free have more of a chance of success than those who see themselves as merely reacting to circumstance. Mo, I never heard from you on this. Just curious what you think and I'd like to resume this conversation.
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Post by Josh on Jul 20, 2010 15:09:53 GMT -8
"Consider the far-reaching implications if we didn't possess free will. In the absence of free will, none of the decisions that you believe you made in your life were actually made by you. Remember that girl that you asked to the prom? Or how you turned down law school to write short stories in Spain? Or just earlier today when you told your spouse how much you loved her? Or what you have been planning to do in retirement? Sorry to break this to you, Pierre, but none of those choices were yours to make. If there is no free will, the entire literature of Western civilization becomes incomprehensible, because every single character from Oedipus to Gatsby was merely acting in response to uncontrolled brain stages...
Without free will, even collective decisions become involuntary. If there is no free will, the American founders didn't choose to adopt a Constitution in Philadelphia. Nor did Americans elect Barack Obama President. Nor is there anything we can decide to do to improve Social Security or Medicare. If free will is an illusion, then there are no good deeds or bad deeds because no one has any choice in the matter. Hitler cannot be blamed for killing the Jews. Abraham Lincoln labored under a delusion when he declared slavery wrong, and the Southern slaveholders were not guilty of buying and selling human beings. In opposing segregation Martin Luther King was merely conforming to his brain states at the time. Even heinous criminals cannot be held responsible for their actions because even premeditated murder is beyond the control of those who have no choice. Not only our criminal justice system but our systems of self-government, economic contracts, civil liberties, education, marriage, and social reform all presume free citizens making free choices; if that presumption is wrong, all those institutions are a sham..."
-Dinesh D'Souza
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Post by Josh on Jul 20, 2010 15:34:01 GMT -8
"If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true... and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms"
from Possible Words, by evolutionist J.B.S. Haldane
"The man who denies free will is the intellectual equivalent of the man who drives himself off a cliff"
Dinesh D'Souza
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