steve
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 93
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Post by steve on Feb 10, 2007 11:31:07 GMT -8
11/6/06:
I like how Paul says in vs 3 " to guard the unity in the Spirit throughthe bond of peace". I've heard it elswhere expressed that regardless of disagreements or conflicts, our love for one another should never be on the bargaining table. This radical position is somewhat lacking in churches these days when schisms breakout because of the most trivial arguments. Some people make it a way of life to be offended or offer some sort of cutting critisms about howthe worship music isn't appropriate or the pastor is to difficult tofollow. When these sorts of issues become points of division, then the enemy has succeeded. Naturally, there are important issues which are worth arguing about, but these occur more seldom than people think. I view this "guarding of unity" as another way of saying "hold on tightly to one another and don't let any disunity creep inbetween.
An interesting sidenote is the part about Jesus descending into the depths of the earth. It sounds a bit like Dante. Perhaps they knew more in the middle ages than we thought.
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Post by Josh on Feb 10, 2007 11:32:54 GMT -8
11/6/06:
Verse 9 could simply mean that Jesus descended merely to 'earth', but I think it does hint at something more when it says that "He led captives in His train" (verse 8). What captives? Well, the reference is from Psalm 68 and seems to recall the days of the ancient Israel winning battles against it's foes, with the ark of the covenant going before them.
But Peter may have seen a deeper signficance to this idea of 'prisoners':
1 Peter 3: 18-20
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
So, maybe you and Dante have something after all.
And then check out this juicy tidbit from Zechariah 9:
9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey. 10 I will take away the chariots from Ephraim and the war-horses from Jerusalem, and the battle bow will be broken. He will proclaim peace to the nations. His rule will extend from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth.
11 As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you, I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit.
12 Return to your fortress, O prisoners of hope; even now I announce that I will restore twice as much to you.
Oh, and don't even get me started on what significance this would have for an audience schooled in Greek mythology!
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Post by Josh on Feb 10, 2007 11:33:31 GMT -8
11/6/06:
Speaking the truth in love- wow, I love that phrase. It pretty much sums up our Christian duty toward each other doesn't it? We must have both truth and love- a fitting verse for Aletheia's logo: "Loving Truth and Truly Loving"
Interesting- Paul's insinuation that strife amongst believers 'grieves God's spirit' (verse 30) coming as close as possible to threatening the very seal of our salvation.
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Post by Josh on Feb 10, 2007 11:33:58 GMT -8
Eph 4:20-24
"You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. "
This theme of putting to death the old man and letting God remake us has been coming up a fair amount at Aletheia lately. It's such a crucial, paradoxial concept of the Christian faith. We are and we aren't yet. We've won but we're still in the battle. We must die daily and be reborn daily, although we have already decisively died and have been born again.
Sadly, I think a lot of Christians don't get this and so are in either of one state of error:
a) they view themselves as only 'lowly sinners' b) they think they have attained perfection
Scripture denies these possibilites, insisting on a tense duality that we must understand if we are to advance the kingdom of God productively.
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steve
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 93
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Post by steve on Feb 10, 2007 11:35:07 GMT -8
11/7/06:
We see in Christianity this paradox of time and space often conveyed. We are and we aren't yet. One of my favorite enigmas is the assertion in Colosians that we are currently seated with Christ in the heavenly realms. This speaks to the multidimentionality of our being. Here on earth we still hope and fear and pray that God's will be done in our lives. In heaven, this is already the reality. In our spirits, we are alive in Christ and with Him in this reality. This is why I think praying in the Spirit is strengthening. It's a bit like synchronizing yourself with the heavenly truth, even though it might not be immediately the case here in the shadowlands.
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Post by Josh on Feb 10, 2007 11:36:19 GMT -8
11/7/06:
How do Paul and Plato play into this in your mind? Were you referring to tensions between the Greek and Hebrew mindsets or are you driving at the idea that both Paul and Plato spoke in these kind of terms?
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Post by Josh on Feb 10, 2007 11:36:49 GMT -8
11/9/06:
Ephesians 4:26-27 (NIV)
"In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold.
Wow. Rose and I were told during our marriage counseling to follow this advice ever so strictly. Though at times it was difficult, I can say we have seen the benefit of following this exhortation. No matter how spitting angry (and as we see here, anger in and of itself is morally neutral, as opposed to hate) we have been with each other, we have not used the 'I need some time to myself' excuse as a way of getting out of at least a temporary re-affirmation of our committment to each other (even if more conversation is no longer possible without a break) before the day is over.
This might ruffle a few feathers too, but I think the whole 'sleeping on the couch' thing happens way too often in Christian marriages. Unless there is a real evil occuring for which one partner is unwilling to own up to, I just don't think spouses should use one person 'sleeping on the couch' as an option or a replacement for doing the really hard and honorable work of submitting to at least a 'temporary truce' and reaffirmation of the marriage covenant despite current feelings.
I'm convinced not doing that is one of the most self-destructive things you can do to a marriage- or any close relationship. As Paul says, it creates a beachhead for the devil.
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Post by Josh on Feb 10, 2007 11:37:28 GMT -8
11/26/06:
I used to be part of a guys reading/accountability group that met weekly to read through books, pray, etc...
Before each meeting we would read Ephesians 4:29-5:21 just to get us in a Christlike frame of mind.
It was a very helpful tradition.
Marc and Steve know what I'm talking about.
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