adam and eve= allegorical or literal?

[m]

11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

If the story if Adam and Eve is an allegory, not literal, what are we to make of 1 Timothy 2:11-15? I guess to me this statement makes it seem less allegorical if you are basing a certain church standard (for this church anyway) on something without a solid foundation.

I guess I need to understand what part of the story that people find allegorical. The fall? The people? All of it?

[jaybee]

In my opinion, it is the stringent adherence to other "facts" of the creation narrative that has caused people to react by questioning all of it even into the fall.

It seems evident that the Gen 1 creation narrative (young earth, 6 day creation) flies in the face of science. So, as science undermines one aspect of the story, I think the rest of the story becomes questioned.

My belief on the matter is that Gen 2 holds the literal creation sequence, while Gen 1 is an object lesson. This comes from various evidences I see in the Genesis' literary composition, and the general purpose for man.

Our scientific mind can't handle that because we say scripture must be truthful, and we measure truth by literalism. However, for the Middle East, they understood truth was not just base fact. Christ's parables are seen as truthful despite the fact that they never really occurred. Why can we not see Gen 1 as truthful, even if creation did not really take place in that manner?

The unbalanced adherence of fundamental Christians to literalism causes the equal and opposite reaction of going too far into allegory.


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[jaybee]

Thus, from square one (creation) fundamental Christianity loses, so when you get to the fall, many have already knee jerked into over allegorizing.


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[Josh]

Another verse that is similiar in the New Testament would be:



21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.



Here Paul is  basing a solid, fundamental theological argument on details of the Adam and Eve story. 

In regard to various views on Adam and Eve, interpretations run the full gamut from pure allegory to allegory mixed with historical fact, to straightforward historical narrative.  


So, on one end of the spectrum some see the whole story as merely trying to communicate early modern humanity's dawning self awareness and loss of innocence.  

Others see the story as referring to generally more literal experiences of a pair or small group of early humans who are sequestered from the general human population (either overtly by God or circumstantially) and undergo some kind of testing experience (garden/tree/fruit may be more or less literal) which introduces an undertanding of good, evil, sin, and death to their experience.    


The evidence from science does point to either an original pair or very small population of anatomically modern humans (as opposed to other bipedal primate species like Neanderthals) who appear on the scene 50-100,000 years ago and seemingly out of nowhere exhibit self-awareness, religious beliefs, culture, etc... Also, early human cultures have creation and fall stories pretty similar to the Hebrew story, so there does seem to be some shared memory there.  


I do think that verses such as the 1 Timothy passage and the 1 Corinthians passage above imply and rely on some degree of historicity to the creation story. Perhaps aspects of the creation story are shrouded in mythological/ symbolic imagery, but not so much that basic plot elements such as the sequence of their deception by the serpent aren't historical.
 

BTW, one of NT Wright's latest books (Surprised by Scripture) has a chapter on whether an Historical Adam is necessary. The same book also has an excellent chapter on Women in Ministry/ Leadership roles which addressed all the diffucult passages (such as the 2 Timothy one) very satisfactorily.

 

[Josh]

Here's a relevant quote from the NT Wright book:

Just as God chose Israel from the rest of humankind for a special, strange, demanding vocation [which is his definition of being created in the image of God], so perhaps what Genesis is telling us is that God chose one pair from the rest of early hominids for a special, strange, demanding vocation. This pair (call them Adam and Eve if you like) were to be the representatives of the whole human race, the ones in whom God's purpose to make the whole world a place of delight and joy and order, eventually colonizing the whole creation, was to be taken forward. God the Creator put into their hands the fragile task of being his image bearers. If they fail they will bring the whole purpose for the wider creation, including all the non-chosen hominids, down with them. They're supposed to be the life bringers and if they fail in their task the death that is already endemic in the world as it is will engulf them as well.

NT Wright, Surprised By Scripture, Do We Need a Historical Adam?

[christopher]

and Jesus affirms historicity pretty early in Genesis by saying:

“that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

“Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Mat 23:36
).

However, it's not necessary to see all of it as literal and historical.  It's ok that Moses, being an inspired prophet, was able to take some literal oral tradition and tell Israels' story and purpose through allegory and metaphor.  It would still serve the same purpose.