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Post by stevekimes on Sept 29, 2012 22:19:14 GMT -8
There are three main atonement theories: Cristus Victor, Moral Influence and Penal/Substitution Theory. These are not theories of the gospel, but of how Jesus death works to forgive sins. There are other theories, but these have held the most traction over the majority of believers over 2000 years. I have problems with all three. The main problem I have is that not a single one of them discusses all the themes or issues that are brought up in the NT about Jesus' death. All three have their central texts, but none attempt to explain them all. My understanding of the atonement could be called the Reversal Atonement Theory or the Anawim Atonement Theory. It's a bit long, so I'm not going to post it all here. Rather, if you are interested, I would recommend that you check out one of two posts that explain the theory, one by me, another by my friend William Higgins. theologyconversation.blogspot.com/2010/08/what-i-believe-about-atonement-anawim.htmlwshthoughts.wordpress.com/2010/09/22/reversal-theory-of-the-atonement/I'd be happy to answer any questions or complaints
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Post by Josh on Oct 2, 2012 19:19:54 GMT -8
I just did a quick read-through and hope to return with more thoughts. Interesting and novel, but a few questions come to mind.
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Post by stevekimes on Oct 5, 2012 10:51:26 GMT -8
Glad to hear what you have to say
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Post by Josh on Oct 13, 2012 13:08:47 GMT -8
A couple questions to start the ball rolling:
How (in what way) are you suggesting that an innocent Jesus dying under the power's legal system disarms the powers and their "judgment system"?
From the traditional perspective, it disarms the powers because it satisfies God's justice and therefore they have no claim against the rules set up by God. But from your perspective, what does Satan (or the powers in general) care if the "judgment system" can be shown to have mistakenly put the innocent to death?
If, for example, an innocent man is put to death in the United States legal system, does that indict the entire legal system or just reflect "human error"?
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Post by stevekimes on Oct 18, 2012 17:34:09 GMT -8
The reason for my viewpoint isn't dissimilar from the reasoning of the traditional viewpoint.
If an innocent person is sentenced in the United States, there is an appeal process, up to the Supreme Court. When a person is judged in the kingdom of God, there is an appeal process, mentioned in the Mosaic Law-- you can take your case to God. And God often imposes the death penalty on those who falsely judge an innocent, poor person (Exodus 22:20-22; Psalm 82).
So the way the cross worked, in this aspect of it, is: Jesus made himself vulnerable to the leaders of the kingdom of God. Jesus already had God's attention, because he is God's Son. The leaders declared Jesus guilty of that which he was innocent and condemned him to death. Thus, they cursed their land. The appeal process in the ancient world is judged within three days. On the third day, God declared Jesus innocent and reversed the sentence of the Sanhedrin. God then withdrew their leadership from the kingdom of God. The Father then establishes Jesus as the new, and only, head of the kingdom of God, as he is the only one found worthy of the role.
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