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Post by Josh on Jun 5, 2012 20:42:43 GMT -8
Since I'm fresh off of reading the chapter on the "local church" movement that Shirley copied me, and since she is our resident-expert on said group, I have a couple of questions for her.
Shirley,
The chapter implied that the Local Church movement was anti-charismatic to some degree (page 225)- can you explain that?
In your experience of the Local Church movement, did you experience a lot of rocking back and forth and the "O Lord Jesus" mantra?
Are there Chinese followers of Watchman's Nee's teachings that have distanced themselves from Witness Lee?
Has the movement fractured since Witness Lee's death as the author of Mindbender's predicted?
How much does one hear about Witness Lee in Local Churches today?
The chapter says that the movement would sometimes sing pop songs with the words changed, yet at the same time it seems like they didn't want to have ANYTHING to do with the outside culture. That seems like a bit of a contradiction.
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shirley
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Post by shirley on Jun 9, 2012 8:34:37 GMT -8
Okay. Question 1:The chapter implied that the Local Church movement was anti-charismatic to some degree (page 225)- can you explain that? Yes. That is one of the things that I have struggled with the most. Most members come off as conservative protestant type Christians - so that is where I have always felt I fit in best. They are un-supportive of speaking in tongues, laying on of hands, and the charismatic "filling of the holy spirit" - which is generally seen as demonic posession. The strange contradiction with this would be as suggested in your second question ?(which I will get to). but even this has a strange implied reservation.
Question 2: In your experience of the Local Church movement, did you experience a lot of rocking back and forth and the "O Lord Jesus" mantra? So, when I was in that church, I never would have called out any rocking back and forth as strange, or called calling on the name of the Lord a mantra, but from Sparks' outside perspective, that is exactly what it is. If I think about it there were some people that rocked, there were also many that used their arms, to express their conviction. When we called, we called in unison, so while it might seem kind of charismatic, its more of a unified charisma, there is order. Personally, no I didn't rock. Yes I called, "O lord Jesus". I was never a strong caller, I wasn't very convicted, this is generally viewed as weak in faith, and I suspect some wondered if I would be one of the ones swept away by the world when I went to college.
Question 3: Are there Chinese followers of Watchman's Nee's teachings that have distanced themselves from Witness Lee? I don't know the answer to this question. I suspect this would be true, because Witness Lee left China, and his independent or newer teachings didn't go back there until later. As I am sure you know, Chinese people do not have freedom of religion, so it is hard to know exactly what is going on there. I know that Western theologians reject Witness Lee, but respect - though not necessarily fully agree with - Watchman Nee.
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shirley
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Post by shirley on Jun 9, 2012 9:53:15 GMT -8
Question 4: Has the movement fractured since Witness Lee's death as the author of Mindbender's predicted? No. He was wrong about that part. Witness Lee lived much longer than Sparks suspected he would. Before he died he appointed a group of leaders to take his place. I was around for two years after this and there was great respect for these leaders and unity among the churches. I remember being told "Witness Lee has said it all, we need to just regurgitate what he has said". If things have changed since then, my father hasn't mentioned it. He did say that the church has "taken the ground" in Vancouver, Wa. And I know that my friend Tim's parents moved to eastern Washington to start up a church.
Question 5: How much does one hear about Witness Lee in Local Churches today? I think my response to the previous question answers this. They are still, studying, memorizing, pray-reading, and regurgitating his teachings, which are all in written format in English and Chinese, and many of his teachings have been translated into other languages - especially Spanish, Russian, and Korean.
Question 6: The chapter says that the movement would sometimes sing pop songs with the words changed, yet at the same time it seems like they didn't want to have ANYTHING to do with the outside culture. That seems like a bit of a contradiction. Yeah, (so I would like to talk about the implication a little more in person Josh), but I think it is important to understand the context Sparks' was writing in - specifically time period. That was the 70's and the LC movement hadn't really been around that long. It was the youth that had been drawn in, drawing on what they were familiar with. These were first generation LC college kids. Changing words to tunes people recognized was a good way to bring more people in. I love to sing in church, but it is really hard because I don't know the tunes. In my experience while we still sang these old songs (why I knew all the tunes on the Oldies station and none of the words) in my generation it was much more common to write new tunes.
I am happy to answer any objective questions. It is important to me that we remember that the members of this group are people, Christians, and our brothers ans sisters in Christ. Thank you for being respectful in your questions.
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