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Post by Josh on Oct 1, 2011 14:42:55 GMT -8
I am not sure that I associate a tangible experience with a ''high''. I am just saying that when I seek God , there can be a tangible experience that feel like a high in terms of pleasure to my soul. Wine is used in the bible as a pleasure imagery. It may not be relevant to certain cultures. In the end is just a term. I would like to talk more about what you think '' seeking an experience '' means versus '' seeking God and not worrying about the experience'' "embrace it if its happening'' The tangible experience we are talking about is not something that we seek but is a symptom of the seeking. The focus is on getting our spiritual needs meet. Sometimes these experiences are confirmations in terms of what God is feeling about us. Just like we have strong emotions with our loved ones (joy, peace, acceptance etc.) it is nice to experience that with God. I think that it takes a lot faith to believe that we can experience the same emotions (we experience with humans--or even more mystical than those) directly with Him--striped of all the human cocoon* that sometimes can be a happiness-report inflater. Thanks for your input. *human cocoon meaning the good things in our natural lives (like good families, friends, education, economic status) that sometimes make us feel that our reality is just fine and in need of not much else. I like this, freebird.
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Post by carebear on Oct 2, 2011 13:18:03 GMT -8
I'm not sure who's speaking tonight, but Sunday nights at 6pm, Westside Vineyard hosts a time of extended praying and teaching on the presence of God each week. Address: 5656 SW Humphrey Blvd. Portland, OR 97221 6-8:30pm usually.
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Post by stevekimes on Oct 2, 2011 16:21:42 GMT -8
Sorry it's been so long since I've responded. I've had a crazy few days.
What I was talking about was two things: first, something that God gives that is a replacement to an addicts "high". I have a lot of experience with addicts, and I know of the experience they have and what they seek. Primarily, the addict seeks a loss of control, a freedom from responsibility. If this is not what you are talking about, then perhaps comparing it to a "high" is a misnomer, and using it in evangelism is disingenuous.
Secondly, I know of many people that use God in just this way. They are always looking for the next "high", for the next "God fix". There are some charismatic churches that bank on this, promising your next experience, and expecting that the next "God fix" will solve your current problems. And these people who seek such experiences evangelize others to have such experiences to solve all their problems as well.
Again, I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from having these kinds of experiences. They are "gifts" or, in Greek, "charisma". The way Paul spoke of these gifts, he said that not everyone has all of them. Some have them and some do not. And he said to seek the "greater" gifts, that is, those which benefit others more. So I seek those gifts, not ones that only have a personal benefit. Again, if God wants to give me any gift, I'm open, but I will seek that which is for others.
Josh, I am not speaking of all mystics, as I am somewhat a mystic myself-- were it not for God's direct voice I wouldn't be doing the work I am doing. I am saying that in my experience, those who are constantly seeking the next God-fix are those who aren't practically building the kingdom of God. That's the same with any gift. If a person is using a gift for their own benefit instead of building up others, then it is a broken gift.
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Post by carebear on Oct 2, 2011 21:23:38 GMT -8
Stevekimes wrote:
I am saying that God’s presence and touch can be so freeing and uplifting that it can indeed be addicting. His touch can free us from burdens and move us physically in ways that in sometimes allows us to let go to His touch. I have been gently jolted or moved physically by His presence and in this respect “I lost control” but it is never in a way that is negative (as natural drugs can). But sometimes His presence can leave us joyful, euphoric, ecstatic and these can be compared to some natural highs. Again, as the author wrote in the quotes I posted, “The truth is that we are not really comparing God to drug use. The world has already done that! The very existence of a drug culture shows that the comparison has already been made. We are simply reversing the comparison by choosing the true experience of divine ecstasy. You do not need to inhale marijuana when you can inhale the ruah – the very life-breath of God’s Spirit! We are simply reversing idea that substances (or anything the world offers) can fill a void of pleasure and experience reserved for God alone.”
Comparing it to a ‘freedom from responsibility’ could sort of be true, but not really. I have found that the more I am in His presence and understanding His love for me through His love being poured into my heart, I am drawn to be with Him….whether that is working with Him or sitting at His feet or whatever. So in a sense I am finding freedom from ‘trying to do it in my own strength’ and I have found freedom to go with Him out of a love relationship.
I do love losing control to God and I love finding the freedom from my own striving and strength and relying on Him. In His presence this can feel supernatural and amazing.
Stevekimes wrote:
I don’t seek the next God-fix. I just seek Him and being with Him.
Stevekimes wrote:
I seek to be in His presence and these times are essential to me being a good worker to others. If I do not take the time to receive from God and be filled with Him (‘eat/drink my fill’ of His presence) and allow His love to continually be poured into my heart through the Holy Spirit, I would be less effective or more fatigued in my work with others. God delights in us individually and He likes to spend time with us. So the gift or practice (or joy) of wading in His presence is vital to the life of a Christian. Sometimes those times in His presence can relax us and comfort us and give us peace that can be felt physically sometimes and these feelings could sometimes be compared to a nice buzz or whatever….but so much deeper. It is important to take care of the worker and keep him/her intoxicated on the love of their Creator and Lover.
Stevekimes wrote:
Yes, if we received God’s love only to let it sit within us and never be flowing through us to others, it is not being used properly. But intimacy with God in each person is not to be ignored.
Sometimes in His presence I have felt so giddy, peaceful, joyful, goofey, loved, accepted, drunk, etc.
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Post by Josh on Oct 4, 2011 19:16:01 GMT -8
I wanted to comment on this. As someone who takes prozac for anxiety-related symptoms, I don't like to see this subject treated so simplistically, as if it's a moral or spiritual failing that I need some help from meds. If I was taking cancer meds would I be criticized? No. But somehow those who use meds to help restore a healthier chemical balance are "addicts".
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Post by freebirdro on Oct 4, 2011 20:17:16 GMT -8
I am glad you bring this up. I think you are right . I don't like the fact that there's still ignorance or lack of knowledge about medication. It is always hard to know what a person is going trough and is better not to judge. I would not disregard something good because of someones lack of understanding about a subject but I will definitely try to talk with the guy about it.
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Post by carebear on Oct 14, 2011 19:43:25 GMT -8
John Crowder will be speaking at Calvary Temple Church on eastside tomorrow at 2pm. If anyone is interested.
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Post by carebear on Oct 15, 2011 21:08:27 GMT -8
Good message at the conference! I'll have to get the transcript somehow
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