Another Way of Salvation?

[Josh]

Elsewhere on a discussion about Lost and Narnia and God's means of redemption, rbbailey wrote:

Well, don't get me wrong. In fact, I wanted to be sure to point out the idea that while the idea of 'another way' was... there... someplace, or Jesus would not have asked about it... 'another way' there was not, and thus the Father's will was done.

I'm proposing that in a mythological other world, the fulfillment of the 'deep magic' may have taken place in another way. What if Adam had never sinned? The 'deep magic' would have been fulfilled in another way, right?

Did Moses spend some time in a sort of limbo after he died when he could not actually enter the presence of God because that final sacrifice had not been made yet? Or, could it be one of two other scenarios:

One we have discussed before: the cross and resurrection, somehow transcends time and covers those who came before if they understood that it would happen in the future.

Or, that there is another covenant. There was another covenant. But the other covenant was still based on the 'deep magic'. Did Abraham's sacrifices and obedience to God get him to heaven, or did God bypass the 'deep magic' to get him in? If so, are Abraham and a handful of other characters the only ones able to get to heaven before Christ died? Am I making any sense?

What topic is this thread?

[Josh]

I'm very leery of "any other way" for Abraham or anyone. Yes, Abraham's works were credited to him as righteousness, but his works were trust that God would provide, which brings us back full circle to Jesus, "slain from the foundation of the world". I believe that grace was available for many before the birth of Christ.

On a slightly different note, are you aware that there are those in some Christian circles who think that God still has a separate covenant and means of salvation for the Jews- one that is based upon works? Very dangerous stuff there and ridiculous in light of the New Testament.

[Kirby]

I always assumed that physical blood sacrifice (Old Testament) was the "deep magic" and that Christ's blood transcended time so that individual blood sacrifices were no longer necessary, the deeper magic.

The means for salvation of Jews is the same as anyone else. Under the Old Covenant, they could still turn away from God and worship Baal and be judged for it, why should it be any different under the new covenant? I thought that the mantle of "God's People" was transferred to the church, not to exclude Jews, but to include the Gentiles. That is the deeper magic, to realize that salvation worked from one people to the whole world.

Pubagetics topic perhaps? I'd be interested to know what the Universalists think...

[Josh]

One individual I know who is associated with the "dual covenant theory" is John Hagee of TBN fame

But, yeah, Kirby, I definitely think Scripture is clear that the true Israel, ie the true people of God are those from every tribe and nation whose hearts belong to him.

Some have derisively called this view "replacement theology", arguing that it diminishes God's promises to the physical seed of Abraham.

I wrote a thread on this topic which I think makes the case quite forcefully that the Church is the True Israel (Jew and Gentile)

Here's a link if you're interested (I would definitely appreciate feedback):

Israel and the Church