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Post by christopher on Oct 18, 2010 16:58:47 GMT -8
Some surprising research in the UnChristian study revealed that, although one of the major perceptions of Christianity held by outsiders is that Christians are hypocritical, they really aren’t bothered that much by it. It's not perceived as a major barrier to the faith for them. In this study, the majority of people under 40 have come to see MOST people as hypocritical and therefore don’t blame Christians for just being like everyone else.
So the question I put on the table for this Sunday’s study is this: Given this point of view, why should the Church care much about its hypocritical image?
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Post by Josh on Oct 19, 2010 19:47:42 GMT -8
Even if hypocrisy is not the strike against us we might have imagined, it seems that living a life of minimal hypocrisy would be refreshingly attractive to a jaded world.
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Post by Kirby on Oct 20, 2010 9:43:08 GMT -8
Hypocrisy is often associated with morality, no? The pastor that preaches hell toward gays, then gets caught with a same gender escort destroys credibility and any chance of building trust. People may feel everyone, Christian or not, is hypocritical, be we expect better of our leaders. The church should take steps to, at the very least, minimize hypocrisy in leaders. Further, we should ask ourselves WHY we act hypocritical. For me, it is because I do not want to be honest, I may be ashamed of how I act in private, or may worry how others would react to my deeds. This is unfortunate. I should be able to be open about my struggles, to not be judged for having problems eveyone else has. We tend to react strongly when we hear of other's "sin" (see the Jennifer Knapp thread, not to open up that can of worms again ) If we encourage openness about introspection, instead of being concerned with others, I think hypocrisy will lessen.
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Post by Josh on Oct 20, 2010 15:51:42 GMT -8
when we hear of others denial of sin You had to open it! Anyway, you're really onto something Kirby by pinpointing this as an honesty issue.
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Post by Kirby on Oct 20, 2010 16:20:32 GMT -8
True, in the Knapp case, but I've seen strong reactions that seem hypocritical.
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Michael
Intermediate Member
Posts: 68
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Post by Michael on Oct 20, 2010 18:32:52 GMT -8
We should care about our hypocritical image because, if the Christian faith is genuine (as I believe it is), we as Christians should stand out as authentic and honest people. Not just the leaders (although, that alone would be refreshing, I agree with you there, Kirby!), but all who confess with their mouth Jesus as Lord.
But shouting from the rooftops, or displaying billboards declaring, "Not ALL Christians are hypocrites... honest!" isn't going to change the perception of outsiders. The best thing we can do, IMO, is to not be hypocrites ourselves! I think if we were less judgemental of others and more willing to acknowledge our own shortcomings, failures, and inconsistencies, and to humbly ask for forgiveness, when necessary, we would go a long way to diffuse the stereotype.
Jesus said to take the plank out of your own eye before removing the speck from another's (Matthew 7:5). He spoke against hypocrisy a lot, mainly to the Pharisees. I certainly can be pharisaical at times. In fact, I'm almost being hypocritical giving my opinion about how not to be hypocritical. I can hardly see the keyboard to be able to type because there's this big board in the way. Wonder what that is....
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Post by christopher on Oct 20, 2010 19:21:26 GMT -8
Great answers...keep em coming.
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Post by Josh on Oct 20, 2010 20:35:19 GMT -8
Every man wanna act like he's exempt Need to get down on his knees and repent Can't slick talk on the day of judgment Your movement's similar to a serpent Tried to play straight, how your whole style bent? Consequence is no coincidence Hypocrites always wanna play innocent Always want to take it to the full out extent Always want to make it seem like good intent Never want to face it when it time for punishment I know you don't wanna hear my opinion But there come many paths and you must choose one And if you don't change then the rain soon come See you might win some, but you just lost one
Lauryn Hill, Lost Ones
Yo Yo C
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Post by christopher on Oct 23, 2010 13:20:00 GMT -8
Last call: Any more thoughts on this before tomorrows' discussion?
I'll post mine after tomorrow.
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Post by Josh on Oct 25, 2010 15:56:33 GMT -8
So I listened to the discussion today on my way to and from work.
It's really interesting to "listen in" on you all and not be part of the conversation. I have to say you guys present a very balanced conversation and I can't tell you how many times I smiled or even laughed out loud at your humor or was impressed with the points everyone was making. Great stuff guys.
So, my take away from the conversation and Chris's points is basically:
The antitode to hypocrisy= transparency + humility + committment to matching your actions to your words and beliefs.
I really like how the discussion ended with the two extremes and the Christian's call to walk the middle road.
I have a thought on something that came up. In the earlier debate about "working hard at being good", holiness, etc.. Chris mentioned how "personal holiness" is not the "main point" of the Christian life (I think- correct me if I'm wrong).
But as I was thinking about that term "personal holiness" which is usually meant to say my own moral behavior as if my moral behavior could be separated out from the lives of others. And I was thinking that ultimately there is no true holiness that is merely "personal"- that ultimately part of "being made holy" by God is to become transparent toward others because transparency without condescension is "doing right by others".
I guess I think Christians have done a great job making holiness/righteousness sound undesireable. But if holiness is defined correctly as including the concepts of "wholeness" and "in right relationship" then it doesn't seem weird to say that the "whole point" of Christianity is God making His creation holy.
Does that make any sense?
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Post by christopher on Oct 25, 2010 18:54:22 GMT -8
Yes, it was a great discussion (thanks to all who gave input). I feel like I blew it on explaining the whole thing on how most Christians feel that “being good” is the main priority of the Christian faith. We got a little hung up on that. And the whole point was really the irony of the statistic and the trap of it perpetuating hypocrisy. So here are are my notes (edited to make sense on the forum ) Perception: Christians say one thing but live something entirely different. New Perception: Christians are transparent about their flaws and act first, talk second. StatisticsOUTSIDERS:
• 85% of young outsiders conclude that present-day Christianity is hypocritical. 47% of young church goers agree. • 84% of young outsiders say they personally know at least one committed Christian, but only 15% think those Christians’ lifestyles are significantly different from the norm. • Only 25% of young outsiders are convinced that Christianity would limit their lifestyle or options in life. INSIDERS: • 30% of born-again Christians admitted to at least on type of sexually inappropriate behavior in the past 30 days compared to 35% of non-Christians. o Pornography, sex outside of marriage, etc. • Ironically, the most common priority identified by Christians surveyed was lifestyle “being good”. Worship, discipleship, evangelism, relationships, serving the poor rank much lower. Stewardship and family faith almost non-existent.
o 4 out of 5 Christians believe that Christianity is well described as “trying hard to do what God commands” o 2/3 say “Rigid rules and regulations are an important part of the life and teaching of my church” o 3 out of 5 feel that “they do not measure up to Gods’ standards” o ¼ admit that they serve God out of “guilt and obligation rather than joy and gratitude” • Some other key findings:
o Christians believe primary reason outsiders reject Christ is that that cannot handle rigorous standards. o Young adults significantly more likely than older adults to say they do whatever feels comfortable or causes least amount of conflict. o Young Christians more likely to embrace and accept many behaviors older Christians would staunchly reject. Gambling, illegal drug use, cohabitation, sex outside of marriage, sexual fantasies, and even homosexual acts.
So what do the stats show? It shows that nobody is fooled by empty self-righteousness. Statistically, there is really no difference between the morality of Christians and non-Christians and it's pretty obvious apparently. Jesus said……"Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 2 For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known. 3 Therefore whatever you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have spoken in the ear in inner rooms will be proclaimed on the housetops. Luke 12:1-3 So what is significant about the main priority of Christians “being good”? It exacerbates the temptation to make yourself look more holy than you are.
27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. Matt 23:27-28 Also, if we see “holiness” as the main point of the gospel, that message is ultimately conveyed to outsiders, that Christianity is about following rules and regulations. The message of God’s grace and restoration project for all of humanity gets lost in translation. It makes God out to be merely a cold-hearted judge, rather than a benevolent King, restorer, and one that LOVES humankind. So what is significant about the idea that outsiders reject Christ simply because they can’t handle the rigorous moral standards of Christianity? Again, it perpetuates the temptation for Christians to begin to feel morally superior to outsiders. (Anyone ever experience that feeling?) 1 John 1:8 says…. “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.” Who Cares?We’ve already discussed that on this board…(see earlier posts) The challengeOn the one hand, older Christians are more likely to have the pretense of morality while they emphasize “holiness” as the means to an end, and younger Christians are more likely to be openly immoral. One group seems to be trying, but not transparent and another seems to be transparent, but not trying.* So what is the cure for hypocrisy and how does the church respond to this dilemma of hypocrisy with these two polar errors? transparency, humility, as well as moral purity are the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. One doesn’t work without the other as far as hypocrisy goes. If we say Jesus is our Lord, yet don’t even try to follow His moral commandments, we make Him into a paper tiger. If we fail to confess our sins, we treat Him like a absent-minded father that’s not paying attention, easy to pull one over on. Outsiders don’t buy it either way. So who are we fooling? (just ourselves according to the study) And this is not a surprise. Paul tells us to “consider ourselves lest we also be tempted” as we are at work restoring others (Gal 6:1-3) ConclusionChristians need to be seen more than they’re heard. Our actions should demonstrate that we are serious about our faith. Our honesty and transparency should demonstrate that we are serious about being real with people and not just “white-washed tombs”. Criticizing outsiders won’t win them over. A demonstration of a radically changed life, full of joy and grateful obedience….might. Additional Quotes:Having spent time around “sinners” and also around purported saints, I have a hunch why Jesus spent so much time with the former group: I think he preferred their company. Because the sinners were honest about themselves and had no pretense, Jesus could deal with them. In contrast, the saints put on airs, judged him, and sought to catch him in a moral trap. In the end it was the saints, not the sinners, who arrested Jesus.
Philip Yancey – What’s so amazing about grace? Young adults are turning away from a modern church that they see as nothing more than hypocritical. Standards and rules without sacrifice and solidarity is hypocrisy. Christian rhetoric without tangible acts of love is hypocrisy. Churches on every corner with hurting people outside is hypocrisy. A large building with little connection to the streets is essentially empty.
Leroy Barber, president Mission Year
*Still another segment is actually trying and transparent. Those are usually the Christians we all admire and want to emulate.
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Post by Kirby on Oct 25, 2010 20:29:40 GMT -8
Brings us into reality Cause when we answer in our defense They can see through the false pretense They want to see some evidence
Commitment - no more alibis Commitment - not a compromise Actions speak a little louder than words
Let your light so shine in all you do With an answer near when they come to you Don't let your mouth start talkin' Until your feet start walkin'
-Petra, Seen and Not Heard
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Michael
Intermediate Member
Posts: 68
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Post by Michael on Oct 25, 2010 20:32:40 GMT -8
I feel like I blew it on explaining the whole thing on how most Christians feel that “being good” is the main priority of the Christian faith I don't think you blew it at all! I think we were just so talkative that we didn't hardly let you get a word in edgewise! It was a good discussion, and I'm really enjoying the book. Thanks Chris!
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