Do You Expect Jesus to Return Soon?

[asaph]

I'd rather be a Protestant. And, a historicist.

[Josh]

Now you're just resorting to empty rhetoric.   Could at least have put a winky face  

[asaph]

I have no heart to wink at your position. It saddens me. My comment is not empty rhetoric. I have spelled out my position in various threads, and I reckon it is close to the position of others who have posted here with Historicist beliefs. So, you are familiar with it. I'm too old for revolving doors.

[Josh]

It is empty rhetoric when plenty of Protestants hold to preterism

[asaph]

What is a Protestant? What was the protest of the evangelical princes bound up in? What do "Protestants" who accept Preterism protest? The Papacy? How does that work when they accept RC doctrinal positions on prophecy designed to derail the Protestant Reformation? I know of no Protestant Preterists. It's an oxymoron.

rhetoric - language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content. "all we have from the opposition is empty rhetoric"

I do not lack sincerity, nor meaningful content, as displayed on this forum. I certainly don't post anything to have an impressive effect on readers, and I obviously didn't post that statement to persuade anyone. It was a simple, Here I stand, I can do no other, comment.

[Josh]

I'm not questioning your sincerity, but you're use of the term "Protestant". "Protestant" doesn't mean "rejects things believed by Catholics". I think you know full well that someone can call themselves a Protestant and have all manner of points of agreement with Catholics, including eschatology. You do know of a Protestant Preterist- me! So you're calling me an oxymoron. Rhetoric.

[asaph]

Aug 25, 2015 17:22:57 GMT -8 Josh said:

I'm not questioning your sincerity, but you're use of the term "Protestant". "Protestant" doesn't mean "rejects things believed by Catholics". I think you know full well that someone can call themselves a Protestant and have all manner of points of agreement with Catholics, including eschatology. You do know of a Protestant Preterist- me! So you're calling me an oxymoron. Rhetoric.

As you say, anyone can 'call themselves a Protestant.' That does make them a Protestant, in fact, in principle, by historic definition, practice, and divine purpose. Today, no one even likes to use the term. Too pejorative. They'd rather use "evangelical." They would rather find ways to unite with Rome. Today, a Protestant means a non-catholic. I must not class the term Protestant with such weakness and pointlessness.



"Soon after apostolic times there came the old Roman rubbish, which in the end proved a worse hindrance to the gospel than all the
errors which had preceded it.

This Popish rubbish was found in layers; first one doctrinal error, and then another, and then another, and then another, and then another, until at this time the errors of the Church of Rome are as countless as the stars, as black as midnight, and as foul as hell.

Her abominations reek in the nostrils of all Christian men. Her idolatries are the scorn of reason and the abhorrence of faith.

The iniquities of her practice, and the atrociousness of her doctrine, almost surpass belief.

As the gospel is the masterpiece of God, “Popery” is the masterpiece of Satan!

There can scarcely be imagined anything of devilish craftiness or Satanic wickedness which could be compared with her.

She is the unparalleled queen of iniquity! Behold upon her forehead the name, Mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth.

The church of Rome and her teachings are a vast mountain of rubbish covering the truth." Charles Spurgeon, sermon on Nehemiah 4:10, “Rubbish” (No. 1156)

"Romanism is now regarded by Protestants with far greater favor than in former years. There is an increasing indifference concerning the doctrines that separate the reformed churches from the papal hierarchy; the opinion is gaining ground that, after all, we do not differ so widely upon vital points as has been supposed, and that a little concession on our part will bring us into a better understanding with Rome. The time was when Protestants placed a high value upon the liberty of conscience which has been so dearly purchased. They taught their children to abhor popery, and held that to remain at peace with Rome would be disloyalty to God. But how widely different are the sentiments now expressed!" E.G. White, Signs of the Times, June 30, 1898


Of course, today such things would be termed "hate speech." History shows it was the common understanding of Bible-believing people. 

"Will the real Protestant please stand up."

[Josh]

I'm gonna leave you with this one except to say you're right that I would prefer not to be defined by what I'm not, or what I'm against, but rather, as simply "Christian".

[asaph]

So be it.

*******

Twenty hours later I feel it is very remiss of me to not state this, from D'Aubigne's History of the Reformation -

"The principles laid down in this celebrated protest of the 15th April 1529, constitute the very essence of Protestantism. Now the protest is directed at two abuses in matters of faith -  the intrusion of the civil magistrate, and the arbitrary authority of the clergy. In place of these abuses, protestantism sets the authority of conscience in opposition to the magistrate; and in opposition to the clergy, the authority of God's Word.
 
"It rejects, in the very first place, the interference of the civil power in divine things, and says, with the prophets and the apostles, We must obey God rather than men. Without assailing the crown of Charles the Fifth, it upholds the crown of Jesus Christ. But it goes further: it establishes the principle that all human teaching should be subordinate to the oracles of God. The primitive Church, itself, by recognizing the writings of the apostles, had performed an act of submission to that supreme authority, and not an act of authority, as Rome alleges. The establishment of a tribunal charged with the interpretation of the Bible, had only resulted in servility, subjecting man to man in what should be the most free, conscience and faith. In the celebrated act of Spires no doctor appears, and the Word of God reigns alone. Never has man exalted himself like the pope; never have men kept in the background like the reformers." Part Four, Book Thirteen, Chapter 6, pg. 443


If the Christian world had this again, these principles, in faith, in primitive godliness and apostolic purity, the foundation and stage would be set for the return of Christ. Christ was a Protestant. Anyone who holds to these principles is a Protestant. It is a high charge, and deep challenge in such a world as this.

The Reformation was never designed to end. People have been taught to forget it, what it was and is. What believers siffered by the millions. What it did to change the face of the Continent and beyond. There would be no United States of America without its influence  and the factors it produced as it cooled in Europe and the policies of Rome continued upon those who just wanted to search for truth and live it out as conscience dictated. They came to America.

Ignorance and cool hearts are in that majority again. The Protestant Reformation will finish the work God gave it to do. As long as there is Romanism and apostasy and spiritual lethargy and darkness, there shall be Protestantism to teach, to warn, to prepare for the end and welcome the Founder of the church in hope; a clean church, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing.