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Post by marcus on May 1, 2010 23:54:02 GMT -8
"Lord, we just pray that your presence would fill this place." Where is God's presence usually? Is he constantly coming and going depending on how much begging we do? Isn't he always here? "Our duty as a Christian nation..." "Pray for our troops." But not theirs. "God bless America." Yes, Lord, please bless your American children only. I'm getting more and more tired of the term Biblical (though I still use it). How can we possibly think that the term Biblical backs our argument? As if anyone can agree on what Biblical is. It's a lazy form of argument - be specific. "Worship" being synonymous with "singing." Guess it just sucks if you're tone deaf. "Our God-given right" because whatever comes next has nothing to do with God, only personal agenda. "Lord willing..." And don't argue, even James would roll his eyes at the false piety.
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Post by carebear on May 2, 2010 16:36:07 GMT -8
Come on guys. I understand the annoyance with some of these things but I'm sure most of these people that said these things had good intentions I mean, we could say "In Jesus Name Amen" is a cliche, no?? Marcus, I am partial to the first "cliche" you mentioned. I am going to defend it. People don't pray for His presence to fill this place because they believe He isn't everywhere already. They are praying it as a form of posture, saying we love you and need you and welcome you here. Come and fill this place. Just as any loving relationship, welcoming someone is nice. But with all these "cliches", you guys have a good point that we should check ourselves and make sure we know what we're saying and why we're saying it.
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Post by christopher on May 2, 2010 16:54:56 GMT -8
Marcus wrote: Yes....I'm with you on that one.
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Post by christopher on May 2, 2010 17:05:07 GMT -8
Here's a few: " Accept Christ" ..... who's accepting who? " Jesus stands knocking at the door of your heart..." misunderstanding of Rev 3:20. " Here, there, or in the air" I'm not dispensationalist....nuff said. ;D " pastoral covering?" ........Oh, please " Hate the sin, love the sinner"....not believed by anyone. " April 1, National Atheist Day".....very winsome.
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Post by Josh on May 2, 2010 19:49:08 GMT -8
Marcus wrote: Yes....I'm with you on that one. I dunno. I think when most people I know use the word what they are trying to do is remind us to go to Scripture without preconceived notions, not the other way around. I also agree with Carrie on the point above about "filling", even though the phrase has sometimes rubbed me the wrong way- as long as we understand what we mean when we say it. In fact, I'm pretty sure such phraseology is biblical
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Post by robin on May 3, 2010 7:26:54 GMT -8
I don't have a problem with this one. I don't think its any different than praying for a particular family member or friend. Most of us know someone who is serving in the military, and its not unusual to pray for those who are close to you specifically. Its not intending to exclude others who do not fall into that particular category.
Overall, I don't think it is a great idea to mock others heartfelt prayers. Many times people will grab onto common phrases when praying (especially out loud) because the are familiar, and not everyone can convey the thoughts of their heart eloquently. Mocking the words that are used in prayer come a little too close to judging the sincerity of one's heart. I would exercise caution with this one.
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Post by carebear on May 3, 2010 7:46:19 GMT -8
Agreed.
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Post by Josh on May 3, 2010 8:09:45 GMT -8
It's totally possible to pray this without false piety. I know. I have
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Post by christopher on May 3, 2010 14:58:02 GMT -8
I disagree. My experience is that when people say something is or is not "biblical", they're attempting to either discredit someone's view or prove their own by invoking that phrase. It's usually rhetorical.
Many different theological camps, using the same bible, accuse proponents of opposite camps of holding views that aren't "biblical".
I'd also like to add the phrase "the bible says" to my list of tired old cliches for the exact same reason. If anyone catches me saying that, I hereby give you permission to smack me upside the head. When you think about it, that phrase is an arrogant way of claiming that one knows the exact correct interpretation of a passage.
The bible doesn't "say" anything. Jesus used the phrase "it is written". With that starting point, you can then easily add "...and this is how I understand it".
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Post by Kirby on May 3, 2010 16:31:26 GMT -8
"I'll keep that in my prayers." or "I'll pray for you."
Before I get blasted, let me explain.
How many times do we say that and not mean it? I know I have said it a lot just to get out of an uncomfortable conversation, or, for the former, when I already know what my answer will be but am talking to someone who wants me to consider the opposite answer.
Example:
Youth Pastor: "Would you like to join us in our Mission Trip to Mexico this year? You'll miss the Super Bowl, but think of the good you'll help us do!"
Me: "I'll keep it in my prayers."
or
Talkative Friend: "...and then he fell and broke his hip, and I have to go there twice a day to make his meals, and of course my daughter is dating that motorcycle boy and she refuses to help, and on top of all that, my mortgage got behind a little, and the car is in the shop and.."
Me: "Oh! I'll pray for you!"
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Post by Josh on May 3, 2010 17:36:10 GMT -8
That has also bothered me before. My solution is to pray as immediately afterword as I possible can for someone after saying that. Because if I don't, chances are I forget.
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Post by carebear on May 3, 2010 20:01:51 GMT -8
And why are we afraid of praying for them right there with them? (me included)
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Post by marcus on May 4, 2010 1:09:22 GMT -8
I don't have a problem with this one. I don't think its any different than praying for a particular family member or friend. Most of us know someone who is serving in the military, and its not unusual to pray for those who are close to you specifically. Its not intending to exclude others who do not fall into that particular category. Overall, I don't think it is a great idea to mock others heartfelt prayers. Many times people will grab onto common phrases when praying (especially out loud) because the are familiar, and not everyone can convey the thoughts of their heart eloquently. Mocking the words that are used in prayer come a little too close to judging the sincerity of one's heart. I would exercise caution with this one. I didn't mock. Designating phrases as overused or verbally errant isn't the same as mocking.
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Post by marcus on May 4, 2010 1:17:03 GMT -8
And why are we afraid of praying for them right there with them? (me included) Excellent point!
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Post by robin on May 4, 2010 6:31:46 GMT -8
"Pray for our troops." But not theirs.
Its that last part that bothers me. Pointing out that certain phrases are over used is one thing, but to add "But not theirs", indicates that you know the heart of the people who use the phrase.
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Post by marcus on May 4, 2010 15:42:02 GMT -8
Sorry, I see what you mean. I'm not making a judgment about their heart, I'm pointing out that there's no reason to use the term "our". The term "our" is a designation that excludes the other party - that isn't a judgment on motive, that's a judgment on language. We want all troops to be safe. We want conflict to end peacefully, we want reconciliation, and we want all troops on both sides to come to find the peace that only Jesus provides.
I guess what bothers me is that we're talking to a Father, whose two sons are fighting, and asking him to bless the son whose side we support, or the one we know. But we'd never do that if it were a human father - we wouldn't ask him to bless or protect one of his children, that would be offensive. We would ask him to bless both and lead his children to reconciliation and peace.
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Post by robin on May 5, 2010 6:47:13 GMT -8
Well said, and I agree.
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