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Post by Josh on Mar 14, 2010 20:09:04 GMT -8
Elsewhere in a discussion about street healer Todd White, the subject of Benny Hinn came up: carebear wrote: To which I replied: I knew this was going to relate back to that teaching OK, but, hear me out. It all hinges on whether Benny Hinn is a false teacher or not. We are told to avoid and repudiate false teachers. The passage in Mark is about someone performing exorcisms who is not one of the disciples, or known to Jesus, not about someone who is a false teacher. There were false teachers in Acts who were said to work miracles as well, but the disciples had nothing to do with them (such as Simon the Sorceror). Last time I did some investigation of Benny Hinn I concluded that he was a false teacher- I'm willing to open up the investigation again. Some people teach false doctrine accidentally, I'm willing to admit that, but not Benny. He has had plenty of time to correct his statements, he's a learned man in the public eye, etc... It's not at all that "he acts differently" that I am concerned about him; it's his theology. So, I'm starting this thread to "re-open" the investigation on Benny Hinn. I'm totally willing to take an objective look at his ministry from a fresh perspective. I'd like to use this thread to discuss questions, information, and concerns about all things Benny Hinn. Does anyone already have input to share? I'll be back with some things to get the discussion going. A final note: this is not a thread about Benny Hinn's salvation. This is a thread about whether he should or shouldn't be considered to be a false teacher, of which the New Testament authors warned us about (1 Timothy 1:3-4, 4:1-3, 2 Peter 2, etc.)
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Post by Josh on Mar 14, 2010 20:17:43 GMT -8
So, first item on the agenda would be that Benny Hinn doesn't hold to the orthodox view of the Trinity.
This is taken from his website:
The one true God has revealed Himself as the eternally self-existent, self-revealed "I AM" and has further revealed Himself as embodying the principles of relationship and association, i.e., Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Deuteronomy 6:4; Mark 12:29; Isaiah 43:10, 11; Matthew 28:19).
italics mine.
In other words, he doesn't believe that there are three distinct persons of the Trinity.
Please note that I don't think belief in the Trinity is a litmus test for salvation, but I do think straying from it is dangerous theological water.
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Post by Josh on Mar 14, 2010 20:40:48 GMT -8
Secondly would be false prophecies uttered by him, which, to my knowledge have not been addressed by him:
"The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my! Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power, and Cuba will be visited of God."
- Benny Hinn
And this is a very famous one:
"The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90's, about '94-'95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America. [audience applauds] But He will not destroy it - with what many minds have thought Him to be, He will destroy it with fire. And many will turn and be saved, and many will rebel and be destroyed."
- Benny Hinn.
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Post by carebear on Mar 14, 2010 22:36:03 GMT -8
In regards to the first post Josh wrote on here (which was posted in the Mark thread) I responded in the following way:
"Please remind me why it all hinges on Benny hinn? Does it mean that everyone who believes Benny Hinn is a true believer cannot perform miracles? Also what exactly is so wrong with his theology? Or how is he compared to Simon the sorcerer?
Do you think as a church we are in a "dark ages" in terms of belief and faith in healing, and we are all kind of almost afraid of trying?
It seems to me that healing people in the name of Jesus is one of the greatest tools of evangelism and it was one of the 1st century's greatest tools of evangelism as well.
Either way the miraculous should follow Christians way more than it does right now, I believe. I’m guilty as charged.
In John 9:3 Jesus said, “"Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.” Maybe the norm is for us to do the same thing….heal people in Jesus’ name so they will see the glory of God and be saved. It seems to me that the people who see healings in Jesus’ name are also very in touch with and yielded to the Holy Spirit…..I want to learn more about that. I don’t think it’s prideful to have signs and wonders following you."
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Post by carebear on Mar 14, 2010 22:44:04 GMT -8
It this all you have qualms with or is there more?
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Post by Josh on Mar 15, 2010 9:32:32 GMT -8
It doesn't all hinge on Benny Hinn. I brought him up because Todd White's assocation and approval of him concerns me. That's all, no more, no less.
Of course not.
Well, I brought up two of many concerns. What do you think of those before I go into more?
The point was the false teachers can also perform miracles as well, so miracles alone don't give us the full story about someone. Their theology is important as well. We have no evidence that the man in Mark 9 held to bad theology, just that he wasn't known to the disciples or expressly approved by Jesus.
Not quite sure what you're asking, but I'll attempt to guess. If the question is "are we bound to make some mistakes when attempting to let God work the miraculous (prophecy, healing, etc)" then I would answer with a yes. While some people are bothered by Benny simply uttering a false prophecy, I'm more bothered by his apparent unwillingness to apologize for it*
I respect this viewpoint and I'm inclined to agree with it as well. However, I have a lot more respect for those who are advancing this kind of ministries more carefully. For instance, Jack Deere or the late John Wimber.
Neither do I. Did I say it was?
*although the spirit of his prophecy about homosexuals truly bothers me for other reasons as well.
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Post by carebear on Mar 15, 2010 22:15:08 GMT -8
So you’re saying you understand that a person can make mistakes (even the one of pride), and God can still use them.
I see that both prophesies you’re referring to can be labeled as partially true. The homosexual one can be interpreted differently by different people and Benny missed the timing with Fidel’s illness.
I think many of us have said “I feel that God is telling me ‘this or that’.” but we are not always right. We are humans; sometimes we expect too much from a healer in terms of perfection. I think it is about faith and service instead.
How important is theology in terms of core values when we are investigating a healing?
Are you believing that Todd White is fluke because of his approval of Benny Hinn? What makes you believe that the Todd White Ministries is not advancing this kind of ministry carefully?
Apostle Peter made a mistake as well. After he was the head of the church and healed many people, he considered the gentiles inferior and was proud. That would be like our modern day Benny Hinn being racist against black people. That would be a pretty serious issue don’t you think?
Maybe Benny Hinn didn’t apologize because many interpreted it as being partially true. Maybe he did apologize but not publicly.
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Post by Josh on Mar 16, 2010 11:41:14 GMT -8
Of course. People can even be evil and God can use them. Think Samson (mistakes) or Nebuchadnezzar (evil).
It was obvious that Fidel wasn't going to live much longer, but he was wrong on the detail.
And how was the homosexual community destroyed by fire instead of AIDS? That second prophecy is not only wrong but it's contrary to the spirit of the gospel (1 Cor. 5:12-13).
Then he should have said "I feel" instead of "God says". That's dangerous ground and should never be taken lightly (Deut 18:20). That is why the NT says that Christian leaders will be held to stricter judgment. Of course, all of us sin, but that's why we need to confess and correct our sins. And Benny has not done a good job clarifying, correcting, or confessing his errors. Rather, he has often completely ignored his sincere critics.
I've been thinking about this a bit more, and I have to say that I'm less bothered by his unorthodox view on the Trinity than I am about his, what I consider to be heretical, views on healing and prosperity.
I believe that the view that as Christians it is our right to be healed and gain financial prosperity, and that if we don't have those things, it is automatically our fault (due to lack of faith or correct practice), is a heresy, yes. And this is the view held by many of the people associated with these movements. This is also a reason why I respect people from the Third Wave movement like Deere and Wimber, who do not hold to this false teaching.
No, it just sends up a red flag to see that he apparently approves and endorses Benny Hinn's ministry.
I don't know if he is, but if he holds to the above heresy, then I would definitely say he isn't.
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Post by carebear on Mar 16, 2010 20:05:27 GMT -8
I personally believe that conclusion is taken lightly.
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Post by carebear on Mar 16, 2010 20:12:57 GMT -8
So all the people that believe Benny Hinn is from God can be considered Heretics, especialy when they cant have all the facts like u and me.
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Post by Josh on Mar 16, 2010 21:37:40 GMT -8
So all the people that believe Benny Hinn is from God can be considered Heretics, especialy when they cant have all the facts like u and me. No, there's a difference between a heresy and a heretic. One can believe in a heresy and not be a heretic. BTW, Benny Hinn or any other Christian isn't "from God" in every sense... only in the ways that person is acting Christ-like. It isn't a black and white thing, like so and so is "from God" or "not". I'm not sure what you mean by "u and me having all the facts"?
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Post by carebear on Mar 16, 2010 22:08:56 GMT -8
So what bothers me is that we aren't seeing the amazing things Benny Hinn has done, but looking at small things we disagree with.
Also, my original post was about Todd White and it can be discouraging when someone doesn't see the ministry Todd is doing (or someone like him) and encourage it, but rather see he approves of another minister they do not agree with (who is working for the kingdom of God in many ways) and automatically narrow in on that connection and almost ignore the original topic.....healing in Jesus' name in the present day. We can't ignore this.
The leaders I am drawn to who believe in healing and the move of the Holy Spirit do not believe it is our right to be healed or to have a bunch of money, but they believe it is possible and don't shy away from it because some others have said “it is an absolute or else it's our fault”. I just don't want to see people put a blanket over very important aspects of the Christian faith because others have maybe over-emphasized it.
Also on a side note, I was thinking about the soaking in the Spirit idea: we need “corporate upper rooms” like those in Acts where we can wait on the Holy Spirit. This is kind of like the Sunday night service at the Vineyard church or the services aired from IHOPU or something like that idea. What do you think of “corporate upper rooms” like in Acts where they needed more of God and sought the continual outpouring of the Holy Spirit together and individually?
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Post by Josh on Mar 17, 2010 7:50:54 GMT -8
I don't actually see any solid evidence for anything "amazing" that Benny has done, and the bad outweighs the good from my vantage point.
That discussion can continue on that thread. The reason I started this one was because I didn't want a side note to distract from that one. I don't think I've been "narrowing in" on this discussion. It just turns out that apparently Benny Hinn is a can of worms- one that I don't think I'll be pursuing anymore because I've said what I have to say.
I have some thoughts on this. Can you start a new thread?
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