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Post by marcus on Dec 9, 2009 22:50:57 GMT -8
I believe so. Hollywood had to change it to, "he takes his revenge and then regrets it... sort of" Exactly. It had the promise of Christian ethics, but gave us Disney ethics (Beauty and the Beast featured the same ending, as does half of Disney's crap). With regards to Seven Pounds, Will Smith's character never resolved his guilt in a healthy way. I'm not a fan of his method of atonement; it seemed like an imitation of Jesus gone horribly wrong. And Jaws...I'm pretty sure I have this written up somewhere, but I couldn't find it, so here goes. Henrik Ibsen, a nineteenth century author, once wrote a story about the suppression of truth. It told the tale of a small town that was booming thanks to it's natural warm springs. Apparently folks back then believed in the healing powers of warm spring baths, and were willing to travel long distances to cure what ailed them. It was hugely profitable for the town businesses, and everyone was happy. The lead character, the town doctor, soon discovers a disturbing trend - people are getting sick from the baths, not better. He takes a water sample and has it analyzed, and finds out that the public baths are contaminated with a nasty strain of bacteria and immediately lobbies to shut down the springs. All hell breaks loose, of course, since people's livelihoods depend on the tourism and the town's reputation for healing. The town mayor, who is also the doctor's brother, plays the role of politician perfectly and minimizes the problem, covers it up, and attacks his brother's credibility. Anyway, the book was called "Enemy of the People". It was made into a Broadway show in the 1940s-50s by Arthur Miller. When I was in the drama department at Mt Hood Community College, we did the play and it was fantastic. I played the mayor, and loved every minute of it. Anyhoo, Peter Benchley must have liked it too, because he took Ibsen/Miller's story about ethics and the suppression of truth and turned it into a screenplay, but instead of a resort town up in the mountains with hot springs, he set the story in a beach town with an ocean. While all motives and conflicts remained the same, bacteria in the water was replaced by a great white shark in the water. That's just good storytelling. Jaws is awesome. Obviously it has a lot of added action and gore, but it's all done perfectly. And if you're looking for a study in human nature, watch the scene where everyone huddles around the docks when a tiger shark is caught about an hour in to the film. The tiger shark is believed to be the man killer responsible for the recent deaths. The fishermen, the mayor (whose role is diminished in the film), the police chief (the protagonist, no longer a doctor), and all of the worried business owners so badly want that shark to be guilty. But when the biologist (Richard Dreyfuss) begans measuring the teeth, and questions if they really are safe to go back into the water, hell breaks loose. It's fantastic. And the scene ends with a visit from the grieving mother of one of the victims, who greets Chief Brody with a slap in the face and sobs while she speaks her peace. Mrs. Kintner: I just found out that a girl got killed here last week, and you knew it. You knew there was a shark out there. You knew it was dangerous. But you let people go swimming anyway? You knew all those things! But still my boy is dead now. And there's nothing you can do about it. My boy is dead. I wanted you to know that." [Mrs. Kintner walks away] Mayor Vaughn: I'm sorry, Martin. She's wrong. Chief Brody: No, she's not. Powerful stuff.
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Post by christopher on Dec 10, 2009 21:57:56 GMT -8
Marcus,
You hit on one of my favorite scenes of the movie as well. I've used that example at work, believe it or not. And the part before the Kintner kid got eaten, where Brody is sitting on the beach and the background kind of moves back (giving the impression of Brody's sinking feeling of panic that he knew he blew it) was pure Cinematic genius IMO.
But, I'm not sure I see the Christian message in the example though. Can you unpack that a little bit?
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Post by Margot on Dec 10, 2009 23:31:43 GMT -8
Maybe I've gotta see this movie again....mostly, I just remember the circulating fin...
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Post by marcus on Dec 10, 2009 23:46:23 GMT -8
Well, the first thing that needs to be established is that the shark is NOT simply sin. Chase that trail and you'll look at the film as FLIRT WITH SIN-->SHARK-->DEATH. Then you'll find that you're a fundamentalist and lose your empathy for those who were eaten.
The shark is just a fact of life. It's unknown presence is the real issue; it can't be known unless someone tells you it's there. Brody can't blame people for thinking the ocean will be better than the beach; it certainly looks like the water is the place to be.
I have a buddy who has understandable goals. He plans to work his tail off to make a good living so he can send his kids to good schools and secure his family's future. He hopes to one day buy a home in a safer community. He takes care of his body, and became a doctor to teach others how to live long and healthy lives. He hopes to leave half of his estate to charity when he dies.
He doesn't know the sermon on the mount. He doesn't know and shouldn't be expected to know that there's a shark in those dreams. I'm Chief Brody. I should tell him what I know. But the water he's swimming in looks pretty nice, and even though there's that shark out there, I don't want to be the naysayer...I'd hate to ruin his day.
Man, would I be pissed if my close friend knew the sermon on the mount but didn't take the time to tell me about it. The last shall be first? Blessed are the poor? Love everyone like they're your family? Forgiveness is both limitless and preemptive? The definition of success is the opposite of what I'm chasing? Aren't those tidbits important for a guy to know when planning a future and raising children?
You knew those things, and you let us all go swimming anyway?
Jaws rocks.
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Post by moritz on Dec 11, 2009 1:56:55 GMT -8
Well, the first thing that needs to be established is that the shark is NOT simply sin. Chase that trail and you'll look at the film as FLIRT WITH SIN-->SHARK-->DEATH. Then you'll find that you're a fundamentalist and lose your empathy for those who were eaten. The shark is just a fact of life. It's unknown presence is the real issue; it can't be known unless someone tells you it's there. Brody can't blame people for thinking the ocean will be better than the beach; it certainly looks like the water is the place to be. I have a buddy who has understandable goals. He plans to work his tail off to make a good living so he can send his kids to good schools and secure his family's future. He hopes to one day buy a home in a safer community. He takes care of his body, and became a doctor to teach others how to live long and healthy lives. He hopes to leave half of his estate to charity when he dies. He doesn't know the sermon on the mount. He doesn't know and shouldn't be expected to know that there's a shark in those dreams. I'm Chief Brody. I should tell him what I know. But the water he's swimming in looks pretty nice, and even though there's that shark out there, I don't want to be the naysayer...I'd hate to ruin his day. Man, would I be pissed if my close friend knew the sermon on the mount but didn't take the time to tell me about it. The last shall be first? Blessed are the poor? Love everyone like they're your family? Forgiveness is both limitless and preemptive? The definition of success is the opposite of what I'm chasing? Aren't those tidbits important for a guy to know when planning a future and raising children? You knew those things, and you let us all go swimming anyway? Jaws rocks. I dig that post. But doesn't it go for everybody who believes to know a truth that might (at first sight) be inconvenient to his neighbour? What about the Muslim or the Atheist or the - INSERT RANDOM WORLD VIEW HERE - ? Can't they be put in the position of Chief Brody as well? What's the particulary Christian message coming through here? Or are the quotes from the Sermon on the Mount actually appearing in the movie (it's been ages since I've seen the movie and honestly don't know. Should that be the case, I withdraw the post).
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Post by christopher on Dec 11, 2009 9:57:12 GMT -8
Marcus, I like it ;D. I'm not sure the average movie viewer would pick up on that, but I like it.
Moritz,
you wrote:
On one level, I totally agree with you on this. Anyone, regardless of their world view can act on their conscience and choose to do the right thing (or not). However, from the Christian perspective, if you zoom out on that a bit, what you would see is that the choices being wrestled with are based on a code of ethics or morality "built-in" by God.
Saying that always comes off as arrogant and provincial to the non-Christian, but keep in mind, it comes with the assumption of the God of Christianity built in so it shouldn't be construed as arrogant.
So, you're right, the moral is not overtly Christian, but the Christian can neatly fit it in with his/her worldview.
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Post by marcus on Dec 11, 2009 10:06:01 GMT -8
I dig that post. But doesn't it go for everybody who believes to know a truth that might (at first sight) be inconvenient to his neighbour? What about the Muslim or the Atheist or the - INSERT RANDOM WORLD VIEW HERE - ? Can't they be put in the position of Chief Brody as well? What's the particulary Christian message coming through here? Or are the quotes from the Sermon on the Mount actually appearing in the movie (it's been ages since I've seen the movie and honestly don't know. Should that be the case, I withdraw the post). Sure, anyone who believes they carry truth can find Jaws to be symbolic. It isn't exclusive to Christianity. But the topic is regular movies with a Christian message, and if the film quoted the sermon on the mount then it would be sort of a Christian movie with a Christian message. It was made by a Jewish director, of course. Redemption, truth, sacrifice, forgiveness--all of the morals that are sacred and fundamental to Christianity--appear in other faiths. We don't own them exclusively. And there are ideas in the sermon on the mount that are echoed elsewhere. The distinguishing thing about Christianity is that Jesus perfected those ideas in his life and teachings, and offered the only viable solution to humanity's struggle.
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Post by happyvalleymom.HREdgren on Jun 23, 2011 19:37:47 GMT -8
I have two on my favorites list not already mentioned: The Spitfire Grill (The way the town is changed by the life of Percy, an ex-convict trying to start her life over and heal from her past wounds) Les Miserables (The effect that The Bishop of Digne has when extending grace to Jon Valjean) Life is Beautiful (I think the way that the father protects his son and lays down his life for his son)
I'd probably have more if I thought about it longer.
I also would have Seven Pounds and Gran Torino on my list.
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Post by stevekimes on Jun 24, 2011 8:04:55 GMT -8
Two films by Terrance Malick are great Christian films without being in your face about it: The New World The Tree of Life
I like the pick of Lars and the Real Girl, that's one of my favorites.
Some mainstream films that are overtly Christian: Of Gods and Men The Mission
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Post by Josh on Jun 24, 2011 8:26:01 GMT -8
Any reason you're leaving off Thin Red Line? Life is Beautiful, The Mission, Les Miserables, Thin Red Line are all must sees (not to mention plentiful material for teaching clips
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Post by freebirdro on Jun 24, 2011 10:47:32 GMT -8
Those all great I will add
Pursue of Happiness
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Post by stevekimes on Jun 24, 2011 11:00:29 GMT -8
Any reason you're leaving off Thin Red Line? It's the one Malick film I haven't seen.
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Post by Josh on Jun 24, 2011 11:34:40 GMT -8
Well, then, add to your list!
The dialogue between Jim Cavezeal and Sean Penn is amazing- not to mention Nick Nolte's acting is strangely phenomenal in that film.
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Post by happyvalleymom.HREdgren on Jun 25, 2011 10:24:51 GMT -8
Those all great I will add Pursue of Happiness I LOVED Pursuit of Happiness. In what way did you see a Christian message? I need to watch it again.
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Watchermike
Intermediate Member
Living for the Lord
Posts: 77
How did you find the Aletheia Forums?: You sent a E-mail (Thank God)
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Post by Watchermike on Jan 27, 2013 18:33:04 GMT -8
What about Sherwoods production: Facing the giants Fire proof Courageous Fly wheel
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Post by Josh on Jan 28, 2013 17:05:50 GMT -8
Riccetts,
I've seen two of those. They definitely have an overt Christian message.
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Watchermike
Intermediate Member
Living for the Lord
Posts: 77
How did you find the Aletheia Forums?: You sent a E-mail (Thank God)
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Post by Watchermike on Jan 28, 2013 18:48:26 GMT -8
I sure would like to see more from those guys. They inspire me with their messages. You also should check out a movie called "Clancy"
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